Korg Forums Forum Index Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Master Tempo Problem

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Pa4X
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BR
Platinum Member


Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 1500
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:48 am    Post subject: Master Tempo Problem Reply with quote

Hi,
I have a style with 2 Variations and 2 different Tempos.
Variation 1 Tempo is 110.
Variation 2 Tempo is 55 (setup in Style Record mode, Master).
In Style Play Mode:
I play and change tempo of Var 1, it functions normally, no problem.
I play Var 2 and as soon as I change the tempo, it goes from 55 to 27 and we cannot change it anymore with the Dial button.
Has anybody experienced such a problem?
Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bud2
Junior Member


Joined: 18 May 2013
Posts: 97
Location: Staffordshire

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this a factory style or what ?? Which style ? Thanks and I will check on mine.
_________________
Genos PA4X-76
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BR
Platinum Member


Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 1500
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bud2 wrote:
Is this a factory style or what ?? Which style ? Thanks and I will check on mine.
This is an user style but I tried with one of the Factory style (Reggaeton 1 from Latin Dance) too and I reproduce the same issue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karmathanever
Platinum Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10402

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this was built from a MIDI file the tempo change is most likely within the MIDI data for VAR2 - you need to edit the VAR2's MIDI data.
This is like when you place a PC (Program Change) in a VAR track.

Hope this helps

Pete Very Happy
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music Very Happy
------------------------------------------------------------------
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BR
Platinum Member


Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 1500
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karmathanever wrote:
If this was built from a MIDI file the tempo change is most likely within the MIDI data for VAR2 - you need to edit the VAR2's MIDI data.
This is like when you place a PC (Program Change) in a VAR track.

Hope this helps

Pete Very Happy
Pete, this happens with Factory styles too. Just give a try and you will see.
Where exactly (in Style Record Mode > Edit Event) can I look at the Var2 MIDI data for editing and correction?
Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karmathanever
Platinum Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10402

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Pete, this happens with Factory styles too. Just give a try and you will see.


Hi BR

I can't get any tempo problem with the few factory styles I've tried.

Please give me a specific style example and exactly what your procedure is - happy to help if I can but I can't make this go wrong.

I played a factory style VAR1 (set at 110).
I played VAR2 and changed tempo - tempo changed correctly and remains unchanged thereafter no matter what VAR I pick.

Did I do this correctly?

Pete Very Happy
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music Very Happy
------------------------------------------------------------------
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bud2
Junior Member


Joined: 18 May 2013
Posts: 97
Location: Staffordshire

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just tried that style and gone through all variations and the tempo stays the same with all of them.
_________________
Genos PA4X-76
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BR
Platinum Member


Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 1500
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys I think either I didn't explained very well or you misunderstood.
I try my best to explain the procedure that I did and then you can try it on your own Pa4X.
If I missed something please let me know.

Here is what I did:

1- Choose a Factory style (I chose Reggaeton 1 from Latin Dance ).
2- Copy/Paste that Factory style in a empty User location (your choice; User 1,2,3 or Favorite empty location).
3- Choose/highlight your that Factory style that you've copied in User location.
4- Go to Style Record Mode, choose Element: V4
5- Click Menu button > Event Edit.
6- Change your Track to Master
7- Click on Insert, now change the Tempo value to your liking.
Now you have 2 different Tempos. One Tempo is for V1,V2,V3 and the inserted Tempo is for V4.

8- Write/Save the style.
9- Go back to Style play Mode.
10- Play one of the Variation 1,2 or 3, you will see the original Tempo in the screen.
11- Now switch to Variation 4 while style is playing, you will see your Inserted Tempo.
12- Do not stop the style in step 11 and leave the Variation 4 playing.
Now try to change the Tempo (V4) to any number and leave the style playing. Be patient and wait some seconds, you will see the tempo changes randomly to any number.

For me it happens with my Factory styles and User Style.
Please do exactly as I did and I will wait for your report in order to understand if I have any issue with my keyboard or I am doing something wrong.
Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AntonySharmman
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 3598
Location: Hellas

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your arranger can see master track tempo changes relatively to the style saved tempo so you might don't know that
you can have 6 different tempo changes according to 6CV per Variation , and when you adjust CV1 at T=55 then
your playing chord might changes to another CV according to chord table with no tempo change or with a different one !

Therefore the working workflow for this is the following :
If your style has been saved at T=110 then
While in Record/ variation 4/particular or all active CV1-6/Even edit/Master
M:001.01.000 Tempo 110 (preset at saved T=110 that must not be altered)
Press Insert
M:001.01.001 Tempo 55
Save and this will work at all CV of variations that you want a tempo change and always returns to T=110 after last measure of CV/Var !

The rule in tempo change automation is that we never adjust real time Tempo while under tempo change function since this
will alter initial saved style tempo value into the new value , original Tempo of 110 will be lost , tempo changes will follow the new value
relatively and your style will be messed up ... (if necessary at least do it outside Var 4)
For instance if you alter tempo of Variation 1 via wheel to 200 then T of variation 4 instead of 55 will be 100
(here comes the relative value of 50% between 2 tempo)
But if while playing at tempo change 55 of Var 4 you alter style tempo to T=60 then 60 becomes the nominal style tempo , then Var 1
will play at T=60 and when Var 4 is choosen again , it will play at T=30 (50% relative value) and so on ...

So the actual information that CPU receives when you set V4 tempo change value from 110 to 55 , is that you want the 50% of style current tempo

Hope this helps
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
agkorg27



Joined: 23 Oct 2018
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G'day, I have experienced the same problem with the tempo change when trying to adjust tempo in realtime on the pa4x. One variation is set to 1 tempo. A second variation is set to a new tempo. All is good when playing and changing from one variation to the other. Tempo changes occur according to what was programmed. Beautiful...but... Whilst playing a style, when I try to adjust the tempo in realtime with the buttons or the wheel, the tempo goes haywire. It behaves unpredictably, jumping from random tempo to random tempo. I was very embarrassed a few days ago when it happened during a live performance. I could not control the tempo unless I pressed stop. What a disaster, the other boys in the band were also disturbed and the customers probably thought what a bunch of amateurs.

I believe that it is a bug with the Korg programming. I am sure that they can adjust their algorithm so if a slight change is made to a tempo in real time, the tempo changes smoothly without behaving erratically.

Korg please fix. I am sure many other users play songs that start slow then go fast or vice versa. Zorba the Greek would be a good example of this (if you forget about the accelerando in between the slow and fast sections.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BR
Platinum Member


Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 1500
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agkorg27 wrote:
G'day, I have experienced the same problem with the tempo change when trying to adjust tempo in realtime on the pa4x. One variation is set to 1 tempo. A second variation is set to a new tempo. All is good when playing and changing from one variation to the other. Tempo changes occur according to what was programmed. Beautiful...but... Whilst playing a style, when I try to adjust the tempo in realtime with the buttons or the wheel, the tempo goes haywire. It behaves unpredictably, jumping from random tempo to random tempo. I was very embarrassed a few days ago when it happened during a live performance. I could not control the tempo unless I pressed stop. What a disaster, the other boys in the band were also disturbed and the customers probably thought what a bunch of amateurs.

I believe that it is a bug with the Korg programming. I am sure that they can adjust their algorithm so if a slight change is made to a tempo in real time, the tempo changes smoothly without behaving erratically.

Korg please fix. I am sure many other users play songs that start slow then go fast or vice versa. Zorba the Greek would be a good example of this (if you forget about the accelerando in between the slow and fast sections.)


Interesting, this post is from 2016 about Tempo change on Pa4X, I've forgotten.Very Happy

But recently I had another problem with Tempo change with my Pa4X that started on 2021 until today.
Here is the link to my post:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=124933&highlight=pa4x+style+tempo+change
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
agkorg27



Joined: 23 Oct 2018
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi BR, I saw your post regarding tempo issues. I am a bit slow coming to the party .......a few years too late...sorry.... Anyway, I do not remember having tempo problems with the pa2x. The random tempos have occurred with styles both in the factory and favorites compartments of the pa4x. It is likely a programming issue rather than a hardware problem. Since the pa4x has been superseded, it is unlikely that korg would devote any resources to this problem. Perhaps it has been fixed in the pa5x...Having flexible tempos and easy control over tempo would be a fundamental issue for an arranger keyboard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Pa4X All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group