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KORG PA5X - Should I?
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duby2
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 12:48 am    Post subject: Groundhog Day all over Reply with quote

Just like Karmathanever...

I, too, am wanting a 5x but am still concerned about the delay in fixing it..
Just like when the PA4x got an update from os 1.xx
I have all these operating systems.

os102
121
124
2
201
210
220
3
301
310

after one thing they would fix they would break something else so they needed another update.

And that was great they tried to fix it good work.


2015 the PA 4x came out, and give or take a little it's seven years...

they've been working on it. So it looks like one updated a year so we
have another five to seven years to wait until it's like the PA4x, which also still needs a update os.. But the PA4X we'll never see another upgrade sad to say..

So if history repeats itself we have another seven years until the PA 6 is out and then it's Groundhog Day all over.

If I just played in my garage or living room the PA 5 would be great I would not need an update it'd be fine ...

but working a lot I need something dependable not just plain factory styles..
It's obvious people that need a workhorse none of them have bought a PA5 to take on a job, it's not ready yet and that's fine we can wait. And in a year or two or three the price will come down some and I'll be ready to buy one.

And if we lose this Korg forums , questions and answers and opinions and help will no longer be there for the Pa5x ,since korg never really answers emails, has said on this forums...

PS1 more thing I probably said this before.

Bought the new car and in the future we are going to add an engine in in the future we will add air conditioning and in the future will give you a spare tire but until then you could sit in it and listen to the am radio that we're going to add in the future. And soon FM radio


Now relax this is just my opinion,

and now for the best part getting replies from what I said,,
this will make fun reading


Confused
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D575
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KORG have certainly harmed their business and damaged their reputation with this one (PA5X), "P" stands for Professional in the title. Unfortunately, the way this is going is anything but Professional.
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D575 wrote:
KORG have certainly harmed their business and damaged their reputation with this one (PA5X), "P" stands for Professional in the title. Unfortunately, the way this is going is anything but Professional.



Well, it takes time.

Atleast they did create it from the bottom up..
Which can not be said for the Genos..

This will pay of eventually.
But its just frustrating for us how long it takes to repair bugs
Bi-anual bug fixes just does not cut it in 2023
And taking 20 months to add new (old as they where in the pa4x) features?

It really shows what kind of a niche market this is..

Strangest thing is, the influence from Korg Japan, or the non-influence, as they seem to disallow Korg Itally access to a lot of things standard in Kronos and Nautilus.


But by autumn 2024 we will have a very very nice key..
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D575
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bachus wrote:
D575 wrote:
KORG have certainly harmed their business and damaged their reputation with this one (PA5X), "P" stands for Professional in the title. Unfortunately, the way this is going is anything but Professional.



Well, it takes time.

Atleast they did create it from the bottom up..
Which can not be said for the Genos..

This will pay of eventually.
But its just frustrating for us how long it takes to repair bugs
Bi-anual bug fixes just does not cut it in 2023
And taking 20 months to add new (old as they where in the pa4x) features?

It really shows what kind of a niche market this is..

Strangest thing is, the influence from Korg Japan, or the non-influence, as they seem to disallow Korg Itally access to a lot of things standard in Kronos and Nautilus.


But by autumn 2024 we will have a very very nice key..


Yes, i agree, lesson learnt now, not to be an early addopter...

My understanding Korg Italy are shortly having a change in Senior Management? if this is true, then we can only hope they drop any old and outdated strategies in the future...

In the meantime... dragging this out all the way to autumn 2024 is not a winning formula. You only have to look at how many second-hand PA5X's keep popping up on the market at the moment...

For now, unless Yamaha surprise us in between, then my personal and logical conclusion will be to continue with PA5X (subject to change)
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well,
Korg is really on bad weather right now.
Like you mentioned earlier, there is many used 5x on the market.
People are unhappy unsure and disappointed about it.
I undarstand fully the people who just plays the keyboard as it is,
But I also understand the frustration that many people have with this situation because of the lack of os.

Some
Will
Love it some will stay away from it.
Biggest problem is that the korg doesn’t care to much.

I hope they will fix it soon and get rid of it before they lose their reputation and name.
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the_boss81
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone who doesn't need the Kaoss function or midi to style conversion I ordered the Pa5X. It arrived after about 3 months. The improvement in sound over its predecessor is, in my opinion, even more pronounced than was the case with the Pa3 vs Pa4. New user interface even more thoughtful and functional than before. I am not complaining, on the contrary I am enjoying the purchase even more every day, may it stay that way and may I have more time to play and learn about its possibilities.
Best regards Smile
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duby2
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 12:26 am    Post subject: Groundhog Day all over Reply with quote

the_boss81

You are correct if you do not need
Onboard MIDI Event Edit
Compatibility with Previous PaX Models
Vocal processor preset compatibility
Copy Keyboard Set
Style Creator Bot
KAOSS Pad
EC5 foot switch?

Can you just play music to entertain yourself then you are in great shape and I love the keyboard it's great

I think most of the people that use this keyboard all one man bands solo work and depend on it to function, as good as the old keyboard Pa4x
.
Korg .
Should have kept the keyboard until it was as good and function as well as a PA4, and then fix all the bugs and add more.
The improvement in sound over its predecessor is, is far better then the PA 4x I do agree from what I hear it sounds like heaven now make it work so I get by one or two of them.

And like Korg.


PLEASE NOTE: all details and dates are subject to change without notice.

PLEASE NOTE: all opinions and dates are subject to change without notice.
Let's have fun play music
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the overall PA5x sound was very nice - better? not $4,000's worth better but very very nice....

I asked Antony about the DACs (Digital-to-Analogue Converter) and apparently he said that the DAC is the same on the PA5x as PA4x, so curiously, I wonder why it sounds different - I am wondering if it is Korg's FX configuration in the sounds. (Yamaha did this but way too heavily with their Tyros/Genos series.)

As I say, just curious....

P Very Happy
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: Groundhog Day all over Reply with quote

duby2 wrote:
the_boss81

You are correct if you do not need
Onboard MIDI Event Edit
Compatibility with Previous PaX Models
Vocal processor preset compatibility
Copy Keyboard Set
Style Creator Bot
KAOSS Pad
EC5 foot switch?

Can you just play music to entertain yourself then you are in great shape and I love the keyboard it's great

I think most of the people that use this keyboard all one man bands solo work and depend on it to function, as good as the old keyboard Pa4x
.
Korg .
Should have kept the keyboard until it was as good and function as well as a PA4, and then fix all the bugs and add more.
The improvement in sound over its predecessor is, is far better then the PA 4x I do agree from what I hear it sounds like heaven now make it work so I get by one or two of them.

do you have a pa5x, with these problems, or are you just repeating a list you found on the internet?

Most of these things are in my pa5x.

duby2 wrote:

Onboard MIDI Event Edit

this can be done through:
- press the style edit button
- press the menu button
- select event edit
(here you can add, insert, delete midi events like notes, CC's, etc)

duby2 wrote:

Compatibility with Previous PaX Models

no issues here, i have styles added from all the previous models, including the pa3x musikant, pa4x and lots of others (see my tutorials where i select styles, there you can see all korg models in my tab list, and all those styles are working correctly.



duby2 wrote:

Vocal processor preset compatibility

they have changed the vocal processor to a different one. So if you want to use the old vocal processor then a pa5x is not an option


duby2 wrote:

Copy Keyboard Set

that's no issue at all.
- press the menu button, save under a new name in your preferred location.

duby2 wrote:

Style Creator Bot

That one is not available, according to the korg website it will be added in the beginning of next year

duby2 wrote:

KAOSS Pad

That one is not available, according to the korg website it will be added in the beginning of next year

duby2 wrote:

EC5 foot switch?

there are midi to usb convertors on the market for the EC5 footswich, but a better solution is to use a larger midi control pedal like the Behringer foot switch with expression pedal and volume pedal and a lot more pedal controls.

Works perfectly over here.


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karmathanever wrote:
I thought the overall PA5x sound was very nice - better? not $4,000's worth better but very very nice....

I asked Antony about the DACs (Digital-to-Analogue Converter) and apparently he said that the DAC is the same on the PA5x as PA4x, so curiously, I wonder why it sounds different - I am wondering if it is Korg's FX configuration in the sounds. (Yamaha did this but way too heavily with their Tyros/Genos series.)

As I say, just curious....

P Very Happy

if i recall correctly, antony said in one of his replies here that the sample library was improved.

But one BIG difference in the pa5x is that all styles (and keyboard sets) now have a Limiter / compressor and EQ per style, when you know what you are doing, this is a big thing and it improves the sound a lot.

for the factory styles all the styles have EQ and limiter settings added.
when you import styles from previous models then you have to add it yourself if you wish to use that functionality (and i would highly suggest to use it Smile )
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

QuiRobinez wrote:
karmathanever wrote:
I thought the overall PA5x sound was very nice - better? not $4,000's worth
better but very very nice....

I asked Antony about the DACs (Digital-to-Analogue Converter) and apparently he said that the DAC is the same on the PA5x
as PA4x, so curiously, I wonder why it sounds different - I am wondering if it is Korg's FX configuration in the sounds.
(Yamaha did this but way too heavily with their Tyros/Genos series.)

As I say, just curious....

if i recall correctly, antony said in one of his replies here that the sample library was improved.

But one BIG difference in the pa5x is that all styles (and keyboard sets) now have a Limiter / compressor and EQ per style, when
you know what you are doing, this is a big thing and it improves the sound a lot.


Pete , the great difference in Pa5X is not DAC but the new software code of sound engine , 24b DAC is already sufficient in Pa4X.
If you play the same style with same resources in both Pa4X & Pa5X with all FX bypassed , in Pa5X you can hear more clarity & wide
stereophony also custom samples are better listening compared even to Kronos 2 HD1 engine.

Concerning new samples/Sounds in Pa5X , I quote one older topic that clarifies it !


Quote:
- Pa4X has 1508 factory multisamples with mono and pair stereo as in all older PaSeries.
- Pa5X uses 1314 of above Pa4X multisamples for compatibility with common older sounds and separated L,R channels of
stereo pianos that were included also in Pa4X like Italian Grand and now are in real stereo format and incompatible with Pa4X.

- Older Pa compatibility stops at 1315 Multisample of Pa5X , so every SOUND that uses 1316 up to 2008 multisamples
in OSC , is a brand new Pa5X SOUND with real stereo multisamples (double polyphony).
- Those new multisamples are in new stereo format and their overall samples size is 4 times bigger than the whole Pa4X factory library.

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chelsea4023
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
First of all, I am a confirmed Korg fan who has owned numerous Korg keyboards (currently a PA4X and a Nautilus 8Cool. That said, although I would be interested in upgrading the 4X to a PA5X, I have never been in such doubt about an upgrade until now. I'll try and clarify my reasons.

Firstly is the price of a PA5X. In the current financial climate it is very expensive. I own a Nautilus 88 which in real terms is approximately half the price of a PA5X. No matter how good the PA5X it is not twice as good as a Nautilus. Maybe that is not a fair comparison but I can assure you that a huge number of the sounds in the Nautilus are breathtaking. Probably the reason I currently do not own a PA5X.

Secondly, the inability of Korg to launch a product with a stable O/S has damaged the Companies reputation, upset many loyal owners and turned Forum Members against each other. Unforgiveable, and what really makes me so angry is the lack of empathy from the Company. It sounds like there is plenty of infighting going on within the Company. I know Adam has just left the Korg U.K. Group so you won't be seeing him on the Crowdcast videos anymore (probably sick of defending the indefensible). Ironically, the O/S would not affect me as I'm your one finger, over 65 player but I feel terribly sorry for those that forked out who require the additional features.

I did a quick check here in the U.K. this evening and there are two PA5X's on Ebay (supposedly new but being sold by a Computer Company), three secondhand PA5X's on Gumtree and two secondhand PA5X's among four Music Stores I checked.

Third, I do not know if this is annoyed owners just having a moan but questions have been raised on these Forums about the build quality of some of the PA5X models. The 88 note model has had more criticism than the other models. In particular, about the noise of the keybed. For the price, all models should be faultless.

Fourth, there was a thread running a while back about background noise on the piano samples. Some 'Power' Forum Members even verified the fact this was the case. Can that be right ? I actually read yesterday that two Forum Member owners favourite 'go to' piano was the C7 they purchased from Antony at Wavesart.

Finally, I recently spoke with a Music Store owner who sold PA5X's and it was his firm belief that many older less accomplished players will trade their PA5X's in later in the year when Yamaha launch their Genos 2 keyboard. My guess is that the majority of PA5X arranger players are over 50 so that doesn't bode well.

However forum Members react to my post, I do think the four points I raised are valid ones. The PA5X is indeed an amazing sounding keyboard, but if I was a Yamaha employee I would be laughing my head off with what's going on over at Korg !!
Chris
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D575
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chelsea4023 wrote:
I know Adam has just left the Korg U.K. Group so you won't be seeing him on the Crowdcast videos anymore


If Adam has left of his own accord? and I incude my own thoughts from the few discussions we had (in person/over the phone) regarding PA5X, then this makes me a little nervous for the long term when considering someone in Adam's position who would have a coal face perspective of Korg and specifically PA5X...

Nice chap, a loss for Korg Uk.
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chelsea4023 wrote:
Hi,
First of all, I am a confirmed Korg fan who has owned numerous Korg keyboards (currently a PA4X and a Nautilus 8Cool. That said, although I would be interested in upgrading the 4X to a PA5X, I have never been in such doubt about an upgrade until now. I'll try and clarify my reasons.

Hi Chelsea, good post with a good explanation about your doubts. Let me give my opinion about these points your raise.

My opinion is that if you are in doubt at the moment, then to wait till the pa5x has everything that is important to you. There are a few things missing which can be boiled down to:
- no midi sequencer (so it's not possible to do a midi recording of your performance at the moment)
- no kaos pad
- no style creator bot
- no conversion possible of your old songbook.

These are the four most important parts that are missing in the pa5x. Korg did say that these four items are going to be added in the future, but you have to decide for yourself how important these things are for you.

If you are in doubt about the stability, I find it rock solid. I had 2 reboots in the first week when I used the copy function but that was it. My pa5x never behaved strange in all the weeks I have it now and I do really advanced stuff on my pa5x, like importing all the styles from older models, adding samples to create my own sounds, adding new styles I created in the cubase, etc. Over here I have no problems with that.

And to be clear, I have no alternative motive to say these kind of things, I'm not affiliated to korg by any means, I had to wait 10 months before I got my preorder delivered from the store and I don't know anyone at korg Italy to speak to.

I simply speak about my own experiences with the pa5x.


chelsea4023 wrote:

Firstly is the price of a PA5X. In the current financial climate it is very expensive. I own a Nautilus 88 which in real terms is approximately half the price of a PA5X. No matter how good the PA5X it is not twice as good as a Nautilus. Maybe that is not a fair comparison but I can assure you that a huge number of the sounds in the Nautilus are breathtaking. Probably the reason I currently do not own a PA5X.


very good point, the price of keyboards (all major brands) is very high compared to workstations and synths. My guess is that you mainly pay for the styles, they take a lot of work to create, so it probably has an effect on the price.

chelsea4023 wrote:

Secondly, the inability of Korg to launch a product with a stable O/S has damaged the Companies reputation, upset many loyal owners and turned Forum Members against each other. Unforgiveable, and what really makes me so angry is the lack of empathy from the Company. It sounds like there is plenty of infighting going on within the Company. I know Adam has just left the Korg U.K. Group so you won't be seeing him on the Crowdcast videos anymore (probably sick of defending the indefensible). Ironically, the O/S would not affect me as I'm your one finger, over 65 player but I feel terribly sorry for those that forked out who require the additional features.

I did a quick check here in the U.K. this evening and there are two PA5X's on Ebay (supposedly new but being sold by a Computer Company), three secondhand PA5X's on Gumtree and two secondhand PA5X's among four Music Stores I checked.

there is no doubt that os 1.0 was a bad release, but they quickly fixed the most annoying bugs in os 1.10 which we are using now. So it makes no sense to keep repeating missing features or bugs on forums and social media which were solved in os 1.10. But that is still happening a lot by people that don't own a pa5x.

The fact why Adam is leaving is pure speculation, I don't believe for a second that the release of one korg model let someone take the decision to leave his job. So i find it ridiculous to use the korg pa5x as an argument for speculating why someone is leaving a company to do something else.


chelsea4023 wrote:

Third, I do not know if this is annoyed owners just having a moan but questions have been raised on these Forums about the build quality of some of the PA5X models. The 88 note model has had more criticism than the other models. In particular, about the noise of the keybed. For the price, all models should be faultless.


I have no idea, I have the pa5x 76 keys and the build quality is very high, the build quality is a lot better then my yamaha genos.

I never played on the 88 keys model, over here in Holland it's VERY HARD to get a pa5x, almost impossible, so you can't compare them over here.

chelsea4023 wrote:

Fourth, there was a thread running a while back about background noise on the piano samples. Some 'Power' Forum Members even verified the fact this was the case. Can that be right ? I actually read yesterday that two Forum Member owners favourite 'go to' piano was the C7 they purchased from Antony at Wavesart.


this is a hard to answer question, it's a yes and no situation. Out of the box there is indeed background noise on the pianos. But these were added intentionally by the sound designers to mimic the resonance of the sound boards. On the korg kronos they had a checkbox for this where you could disable these kind of resonance effects, but on the pa5x these features aren't there. You can remove some of the sound effects by disabling upper 2 in some of the keyboard sets, but even then the resonance board samples are included in the sound programming itself on Oscillators 3 and higher.

My personal opinion is that the sound designers of korg added the extra resonance samples at a to loud level in the sounds, but that is a sound designer decision and you can always solve this quite easily.

There is also a Dry version of the piano models where these resonance sounds are missing, so you can always use these ones.

If you are referring to the piano notes itself, there is no noise. At least not more then you would expect when sampling acoustic material and definitely not noticeable during ordinary play. I've checked it in my studio with 4 high end studio monitors and lot's of graphical analyzers, and for me it's all totally acceptable and in the good range of frequencies.

And you can indeed add your own piano's to the pa5x, Antony made a fantastic high quality piano library which people like, and it's always possible to add your own, I've added the Native instruments Alicia Keys and the Native Instrument Noir piano's to my korg pa5x, because I really like those piano flavors.

But in my latest piano tutorial I gave a lot of examples of what you can do with the pianos, and also show a couple of the factory pianos in the dry version. Then you can check for yourself because these are recorded directly out of my pa5x and even though youtube compresses the sound a little bit I still think that the sound in the video is a fair representation of how the pa5x sounds in real life.


chelsea4023 wrote:


Finally, I recently spoke with a Music Store owner who sold PA5X's and it was his firm belief that many older less accomplished players will trade their PA5X's in later in the year when Yamaha launch their Genos 2 keyboard. My guess is that the majority of PA5X arranger players are over 50 so that doesn't bode well.

However forum Members react to my post, I do think the four points I raised are valid ones. The PA5X is indeed an amazing sounding keyboard, but if I was a Yamaha employee I would be laughing my head off with what's going on over at Korg !!
Chris


I don't believe that korg pa5x users are going to switch to a yamaha genos 2, why would they do that?

What i also believe is that when the yamaha genos 2 is released that the social media and internet will burn down the genos 2 in the same way as is happening now with the pa5x and lots of other synths / workstations / keyboards / tv's / games or any other item you can think off.

That is how the internet works nowadays, where it is almost forbidden to be positive about something. So it's always good to rely on your own experiences with things.

In my opinion it's a good keyboard and safe to upgrade from a pa4x if you don't need the features listed above in this post. It's much more stable then you would expect based on the reactions on the social media and forums, at least my pa5x is (and I doubt that I have a very special model which magically solves every issue).

That doesn't mean that there aren't any problems anymore, there are things that aren't working, but I doubt that most people will discover them, only people that are diving really deep in to the pa5x and doing things that most people won't do will discover those things.

Antony made some excellent posts about things that need work, these are also really advanced things that no ordinary user ever will discover, but they are very interesting to read, and also his work around solutions are a joy to read.

Asena also made some valid points with good examples, but he also knows how to work around most of these features.

I've discovered also quite a few things, that nobody seems to have discovered (I never read anyone mentioning these things), but these are all in the 'advanced' sound programming area, so these are also things people probably never will discover.

I really hope that korg will add the missing features on a short notice and they will solve the issues for the people that have issues now.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW - Could someone please tell me how to save the transpose in midi file? Thanks a lot in advance, BR! Smile
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Sorry 4 my English - I only speak Polish & German & really like my Pa5X Smile
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