 |
Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
TransSynth
Joined: 02 Jan 2023
Posts: 14
|
 Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:38 pm Post subject: Letting the Morph LFO run |
 |
|
I'm new to the Modwave and I want to use the Morph LFO at a very slow speed to modulate the Morph amount. It seems that this is rather restricted, as (looking at the Editor software) the LFO restarts with every new key press. I'm wanting the effect of slowly rotating the Morph knob from 0 to 10 and back again, continuously repeating while I play a set of notes.
Is this not possible? If not, what is the purpose of the dedicated Morph LFO? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
HardSync
Platinum Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 794
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, it's not immediately obvious but you can do this. Turn on Sync Notes for the LFO and you'll have a LFO that does not restart with each key press.
If it helps, this is from the manual:
| Quote: | SYNC NOTES
[Off, On]
This is controlled by the SYNC NOTES button.
Off: The LFO starts each time you press a key, and an independent LFO runs for each note. This is the default.
On: The LFO starts from the phase determined by the first note in the phrase, so that the LFOs for all notes being held
are synchronized together. Fade applies only to the first note in the phrase.
Note: Even if Sync Notes is On, each note’s LFO speed may still be different if modulated by note number, velocity, key
scaling, or other note-specific modulation source |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TransSynth
Joined: 02 Jan 2023
Posts: 14
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HardSync wrote: | Yeah, it's not immediately obvious but you can do this. Turn on Sync Notes for the LFO and you'll have a LFO that does not restart with each key press.
If it helps, this is from the manual:
| Quote: | SYNC NOTES
[Off, On]
This is controlled by the SYNC NOTES button.
Off: The LFO starts each time you press a key, and an independent LFO runs for each note. This is the default.
On: The LFO starts from the phase determined by the first note in the phrase, so that the LFOs for all notes being held
are synchronized together. Fade applies only to the first note in the phrase.
Note: Even if Sync Notes is On, each note’s LFO speed may still be different if modulated by note number, velocity, key
scaling, or other note-specific modulation source |
|
Unfortunately, this doesn't make the LFO run freely. To quote the SoS review which almost put me off buying: "It isn’t the same as a proper free‑running LFO, however, and I could find no way to achieve a lot of my usual sound design tricks that involve slow free‑running LFOs. They offer plenty of varied waveforms, tempo‑sync, fade‑ins and even adjustable and random phase. But the lack of proper free‑running mode seems baffling."
The Kaoss Physics pad can be used to generate a free-running modulation source but I've really struggled to make it work in a predictable fashion (I suppose that's why it's called Kaoss).
I want to predictably auto-modulate Osc Position and Morph parameters slowly from 0 to full and back, while playing notes legato or staccato, so that the modulation keeps going without repeatedly restarting with each new note as the LFOs insist on doing so annoyingly. The Kaoss ball is a pain to try to keep above the Y=0 line, below which it has no effect on the parameters (is there a way to make it do so?). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HardSync
Platinum Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 794
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, at the moment, I get can get you halfway there ... I have to run some errands so I don't have time to figure out all of the specifics. But...
For the Kaoss Pad, there is a preset called Diamond Cycle 2 that I like. If you set the Trigger to a mod knob and the trigger threshold value to 1, it will continuously run in a diamond pattern like a free running LFO the moment you move the knob -- if you want a different controller or button, like just pressing the Kaoss button, you can choose that. It won't stop or change unless you touch the pad. If it does change somehow, you can move the knob again to bring it back to the correct state. You can modify the shape of the diamond by changing the angle parameter, even have it running as a straight horizontal line back and forth if you want. Just have a bit of a play with it.
As for dealing with the X or Y axes, I believe you can make the pad unipolar using one of the Mod Processors -- can't recall which will do it, thus the halfway there bit -- so that the far left always equals zero and the bottom always equals zero. I think it is the Offset Mod Processor. Have a read of the manual to confirm and for instructions. But you would set up your modulation as usual and then set the Int Mod parameter to the Mod Processor 1 or 2... Pretty sure that works. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HardSync
Platinum Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 794
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
OK, so I've tested this. You can simulate a free-running LFO with the Kaoss physics engine and using the Offset Mod Processor.
First, set up an Offset mod processor 1 with Input set to Kaoss X. Set the Level amount to 50%. Set the Offset value to 50%.
Next, set up your Morph modulation assigned to Mod Proc 1. You can start with 100% intensity, and adjust to taste after the next step. Note, this seems to work best with the actual morph value starting at 50:00, but it doesn't have to be...
Next, set up your Kaoss engine. We'll start with the Diamond Cycle 2 preset, because it's a good starting point. We're going to use two screens only, and you'll want to jump out of them after you make adjustments to watch the ball move on the screen.
On the third screen, set the Start Positions to X:0, Y:0. This will put the ball in the lower left corner. Then set the Direction to 0. This will make the ball travel in a horizontal line only. For now, set the force to any value or leave it as is... we'll come back to it. Finally, on this screen, set the Trigger Source to a knob or something else that isn't based on the keyboard or any envelope LFO, with a value of anything greater than 0. You'll want a controller, though, or a button choice. As you make further changes, you'll need to activate the trigger often to hear the new results -- for now anyway. Once it's set up, you only activate it once.
Now got to the first screen of the Kaoss engine. Set the Time value to 0.10 or lower. This will slow down the ball considerably. You can adjust the Friction, too, if you choose. But keep in mind, you're going to balance between Time, Friction, and then Force on that third screen until you get the slowest speed you like, and possibly the fastest speed if you decide to modulate how fast this free-running LFO will go. Force is going to determine that top speed when you're at a Time of 1.00x. You cannot modulate the Force parameter though.
Optional, you can modulate the Kaoss Time parameter with a knob or other controller to speed up this free running LFO if you choose. I liked that option.
Anyway, you'll note that if you do this, the ball is constantly moving back and forth at the bottom of the screen (once you activate it), regardless of key presses, so you can play legato or staccato and it won't affect the ball's movement at all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TransSynth
Joined: 02 Jan 2023
Posts: 14
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| HardSync wrote: | | OK, so I've tested this. You can simulate a free-running LFO with the Kaoss physics engine and using the Offset Mod Processor. |
Fabulous. Thank you. It works... just about. I set it exactly as you suggest and the result is close to a free-running LFO.
What keeps it from five stars as a workaround is that I can't get the simulated LFO waveform to be a sine or triangle wave; no matter how I alter the Osc Morph amount, there are two dead spaces somewhere in the ball's travel which do not modulate. The result is that the modulation (while controlling Morph as desired from zero to full and back) pauses at the top and bottom of the cycle for about half of its period. The result is not great. It's a square wave with a 45-degree slant instead of 90 degrees (I'd attach an image but I can't find a way to do so).
Ignore the previous: I fixed this by reducing the Intensity of the Modulation to 50, which resulted in the Morph control moving exactly continuously from zero to 100 and straight back, no gaps. But why? I'm confused. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zaphod betamax
Joined: 09 Jun 2017
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If your initial morph is set to 50%, then a displacement to 100 is 50 and a displacement to 0 is 50.
| TransSynth wrote: | | HardSync wrote: | | OK, so I've tested this. You can simulate a free-running LFO with the Kaoss physics engine and using the Offset Mod Processor. |
Fabulous. Thank you. It works... just about. I set it exactly as you suggest and the result is close to a free-running LFO.
What keeps it from five stars as a workaround is that I can't get the simulated LFO waveform to be a sine or triangle wave; no matter how I alter the Osc Morph amount, there are two dead spaces somewhere in the ball's travel which do not modulate. The result is that the modulation (while controlling Morph as desired from zero to full and back) pauses at the top and bottom of the cycle for about half of its period. The result is not great. It's a square wave with a 45-degree slant instead of 90 degrees (I'd attach an image but I can't find a way to do so).
Ignore the previous: I fixed this by reducing the Intensity of the Modulation to 50, which resulted in the Morph control moving exactly continuously from zero to 100 and straight back, no gaps. But why? I'm confused. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zaphod betamax
Joined: 09 Jun 2017
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I will be working further on this topic in March
and see what I can cook up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HardSync
Platinum Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 794
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Ignore the previous: I fixed this by reducing the Intensity of the Modulation to 50, which resulted in the Morph control moving exactly continuously from zero to 100 and straight back, no gaps. But why? I'm confused.
|
It depends on where you set the actual Morph value before it's modulated by the Kaoss engine. Setting that Morph to 50:00 allows the ball to sweep through the entire range of the morph value evenly. If you position Morph to some other value and still want the entire range, you'd have to adjust the Offset Mod Processor to compensate, or do something else.
It's also possible that you might not want to use the full range of the Morph parameter on some other patch, so you can freely adjust the "depth" of how far it sweeps through by adjusting the intensity of the offset or what not. And this isn't limited to solely the Morph parameter. You can use this for almost anything that can be modulated.
Something I haven't tried yet is using the Curve Mod Processor to add some curvature to the first Offset Mod Processor, to make it more like a sine or even an exponential LFO. But even so, just dialing in the various Kaoss presets will likely produce some fab and unexpected results by simply using the Offset Mod alone. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zaphod betamax
Joined: 09 Jun 2017
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 7:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Also the KAOSS engine has a built in lag.
I have mine set to 10sec for most scenes.
| HardSync wrote: | | Quote: | Ignore the previous: I fixed this by reducing the Intensity of the Modulation to 50, which resulted in the Morph control moving exactly continuously from zero to 100 and straight back, no gaps. But why? I'm confused.
|
It depends on where you set the actual Morph value before it's modulated by the Kaoss engine. Setting that Morph to 50:00 allows the ball to sweep through the entire range of the morph value evenly. If you position Morph to some other value and still want the entire range, you'd have to adjust the Offset Mod Processor to compensate, or do something else.
It's also possible that you might not want to use the full range of the Morph parameter on some other patch, so you can freely adjust the "depth" of how far it sweeps through by adjusting the intensity of the offset or what not. And this isn't limited to solely the Morph parameter. You can use this for almost anything that can be modulated.
Something I haven't tried yet is using the Curve Mod Processor to add some curvature to the first Offset Mod Processor, to make it more like a sine or even an exponential LFO. But even so, just dialing in the various Kaoss presets will likely produce some fab and unexpected results by simply using the Offset Mod alone. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zaphod betamax
Joined: 09 Jun 2017
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yes the lag function of the KAOSS output will smooth out the LFO. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HardSync
Platinum Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 794
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yes, the Lag parameter works wonders; I often forget it is there. Thanks for that tip, Zaphod. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zaphod betamax
Joined: 09 Jun 2017
Posts: 24
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
