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Any Cubase experts out there who can help? (Kronos w Cubase)

 
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Hot Air



Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Dubai, UAE

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:55 pm    Post subject: Any Cubase experts out there who can help? (Kronos w Cubase) Reply with quote

Got my Kronos X hooked up with Cubase 12. It works great via USB (using ASIO4ALL driver).

Regarding mixdown, how do I most efficiently bounce MIDI tracks that use Kronos into a final mix? To elaborate, I’m using Kronos in sequencer mode with MIDI tracks driven by Cubase instead of the Kronos sequencer.

I’m new to Cubase and linking up external synths. So far, when I think I’m ready to finish, I have simply recorded my Kronos tracks individually as audio onto a separate audio track in Cubase. Tedious, for sure, but that impaired process also limits further production flexibility. There must surely be a better way that I’m yet to learn.

TIA
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been using Cubase for a long time, although I rarely use the word expert. Be that as it may, here are some thoughts.

First, you have to mix somewhere. If you take advantage of the song / sequencer / combi paradigm in the Kronos, you can do your mixing there, send a stereo output to Cubase, record it, and you have all your keyboard parts on one Cubase track. If you need to change something, you change it in the Kronos, and then re-record that mix of keyboard parts.

If you enjoy doing your arranging in the Kronos, this will work for you. What you get in Cubase is the full mix of all your keyboard parts. However, this is a different kind of limitation in terms of production flexibility because now you can't use Cubase to its full advantage on each individual keyboard part. This may or may not be important to you.

For example, what sounds good by itself doesn't always sound good in the mix, so if you have an electric piano that needs a tweak on the highs, but all the other parts are fine, that tweak would affect all of your keyboard parts since they're just one track. So, you'd have to do your equalization and any other tweaks in the Kronos. In this example, you lose the advantage of vst plugins on individual keyboard parts in Cubase. But again, this may or may not matter to you.

I don't use sequencer mode in the Kronos. I just use it as a midi connected keyboard. The way I work is to record a midi track in Cubase for each keyboard part. I then record each keyboard track's audio on individual tracks, as you noted. If something needs to be changed, I work on that one keyboard part, and re-record the track. I then have a one track per part arrangement in Cubase, and can make use of all vsts and other processing on a track by track basis. This allows me to get the most out of Cubase and let it do what it does best. But that's just me.

The important thing to note here is that in music production, there are usually a number of different ways that you can accomplish the same goal. There is no right or wrong, it's just a matter of the workflow that feels the best for you personally.

I'm a software developer by trade, so for me it's much more comfortable to sit in front of a computer and use Cubase for midi, sequencing, etc. Another person might not enjoy computers, and would be more comfortable doing as much as possible in the Kronos, mixing in the Kronos, and then just sending out the mixed keyboard parts as one stereo track. In effect, this would be using Cubase like a two track tape machine to bounce down the keyboard mix to.

What I would suggest would be to do some songs both ways (and these are just the two most obvious ways, others my suggest additional workflows). Do songs that have multiple keyboard parts and just see what feels most natural to you. As you do, bear in mind that anything new, e.g. working with Cubase, won't feel natural in the beginning. Nonetheless, after playing with it for a while you'll start to get a feel for what you like the best.

I'm happy to help with any Cubase specific things you're trying to accomplish, but I think the first thing to do is to find your optimum workflow, and then drill down into specific tasks from there.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
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Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth
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xp50player
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
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Location: Nashville

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I needed to print a bunch of Cubase MIDI tracks using the Kronos as a sound source, I would set all the Kronos channel levels for recording into Cubase, make copies of the Cubase MIDI parts in the same project, end to end , as many as there are tracks to print, and solo 1 MIDI part in each duplicate group of MIDI tracks. That way, you could record all the Kronos channels to one Cubase audio track unattended and split them up later.
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Hot Air



Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Dubai, UAE

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisDuncan wrote:
I've been using Cubase for a long time, although I rarely use the word expert. Be that as it may, here are some thoughts.

First, you have to mix somewhere. If you take advantage of the song / sequencer / combi paradigm in the Kronos, you can do your mixing there, send a stereo output to Cubase, record it, and you have all your keyboard parts on one Cubase track. If you need to change something, you change it in the Kronos, and then re-record that mix of keyboard parts.

If you enjoy doing your arranging in the Kronos, this will work for you. What you get in Cubase is the full mix of all your keyboard parts. However, this is a different kind of limitation in terms of production flexibility because now you can't use Cubase to its full advantage on each individual keyboard part. This may or may not be important to you.

For example, what sounds good by itself doesn't always sound good in the mix, so if you have an electric piano that needs a tweak on the highs, but all the other parts are fine, that tweak would affect all of your keyboard parts since they're just one track. So, you'd have to do your equalization and any other tweaks in the Kronos. In this example, you lose the advantage of vst plugins on individual keyboard parts in Cubase. But again, this may or may not matter to you.

I don't use sequencer mode in the Kronos. I just use it as a midi connected keyboard. The way I work is to record a midi track in Cubase for each keyboard part. I then record each keyboard track's audio on individual tracks, as you noted. If something needs to be changed, I work on that one keyboard part, and re-record the track. I then have a one track per part arrangement in Cubase, and can make use of all vsts and other processing on a track by track basis. This allows me to get the most out of Cubase and let it do what it does best. But that's just me.

The important thing to note here is that in music production, there are usually a number of different ways that you can accomplish the same goal. There is no right or wrong, it's just a matter of the workflow that feels the best for you personally.

I'm a software developer by trade, so for me it's much more comfortable to sit in front of a computer and use Cubase for midi, sequencing, etc. Another person might not enjoy computers, and would be more comfortable doing as much as possible in the Kronos, mixing in the Kronos, and then just sending out the mixed keyboard parts as one stereo track. In effect, this would be using Cubase like a two track tape machine to bounce down the keyboard mix to.

What I would suggest would be to do some songs both ways (and these are just the two most obvious ways, others my suggest additional workflows). Do songs that have multiple keyboard parts and just see what feels most natural to you. As you do, bear in mind that anything new, e.g. working with Cubase, won't feel natural in the beginning. Nonetheless, after playing with it for a while you'll start to get a feel for what you like the best.

I'm happy to help with any Cubase specific things you're trying to accomplish, but I think the first thing to do is to find your optimum workflow, and then drill down into specific tasks from there.


Hi Chris, thank you for taking the time to write the above. Much appreciated!

So far I have managed to get my Kronos (and a Yamaha MX49) hooked up to Cubase via USB. I followed some youtube examples of getting an external synth to work like a VSTi in Cubase. The YT examples I found used audio inputs into the interface though (not USB audio) so I have had to take some experimental steps on my own in that regard. So far I seem to be onto something. I have got both my synths listed under the Instrument menu in Cubase (where you find your software VSTi’s). MY Yamaha MX was already loaded in Cubase database so I can even call up Programs/Voices from within Cubase without having to select them on the synth itself. Very useful because I can load up a Cubase project and it will call up the appropriate program on the synth according to the track.

Proof of concept is yet to be tried though - that is, can I successfully export my project in the same way as a Cubase VSTi would? That would just be the icing on the cake, so no worries if not. I can easily revert to recording an audio track for each synth part when i’ve finished tweaking any MIDI. At the moment I’m in a good place though. I can make good use of Cubase without committing to audio and having to re-record the audio if I want to change something, like a different chord inversion, notes etc.

Happy days!
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ChrisDuncan
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Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great to hear that things are going well for you.

Can you share the YouTube links on using external synths as vsts? Never tried that before, so it would be fun to experiment with. Always something new to learn.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth
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CliveJ
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Joined: 30 Dec 2020
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be so nice if Kronos had 16 track audio over USB in both directions. It doesn’t.

All of my kit feeds audio into an X32 compact, which does 32 tracks over USB into CuBase. I have the Kronos connected on USB for MIDI.

For development I may use the Kronos sequencer, and then transfer the MIDI into CuBase. Otherwise I’ll record MIDI directly into CuBase and then the resulting audio, via the X32, after tweaking. It kinda depends on whether I’m doing a cover, which defines the parts, or if I’m working on new material/arrangement.

It is tedious having to bring the audio in one track at a time, 16 tracks times 3 minutes is 48 minutes (if you’re really quick!), but I have the benefit of having the performance in MIDI - no brainer for me - MIDI is much easier to edit than audio. I can play the MIDI into the Kronos and hear the whole thing before I hit record on audio, which I think is a lot faster than working with audio recordings. I’ll accept the trade-off of the extra bounce time.

At the end of the day it’s down to preference. Kronos was sold as a performance workstation that allowed you do some amazing things live, and with tracks you’d recorded into the it. I’m not sure Korg seriously considered how it would be used in the studio, but it’s always been their configuration of 4 audio outputs since the M1 (maybe earlier, but I had an early M1 and that was a long, long time ago).

At least Korg gave us the ability to download audio/MIDI files from it. But the implied strategy is to develop on the Kronos and then download the files rather than integrate it fully into a DAW. Short sighted, but that’s life.
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding mixdown, there's another thread on using Cubase and external instruments, and Daniel included this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZDwJrBqZts

What I noticed that would be relevant to your situation is about two thirds of the way through the video. He's created an instrument track for the Kronos, and recorded some stuff. Then he uses the Cubase render in place, which creates an audio track and mutes the midi.

If you use that approach you'll have audio for all your tracks and can use all the Cubase functionality to tweak them in the mix. However, if you want to change your part, you just get rid of the audio track, tweak or re-record the midi, and then render in place again.

That kinda sounds like the workflow you're looking for. Let me know how that goes for you.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth
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ChrisDuncan
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Joined: 17 May 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CliveJ wrote:
It is tedious having to bring the audio in one track at a time, 16 tracks times 3 minutes is 48 minutes (if you’re really quick!), but I have the benefit of having the performance in MIDI - no brainer for me - MIDI is much easier to edit than audio. I can play the MIDI into the Kronos and hear the whole thing before I hit record on audio, which I think is a lot faster than working with audio recordings. I’ll accept the trade-off of the extra bounce time.

Yeah, I thought the render in place thing I mentioned above might help with that, but it records in real time as well.

There are so many options in the studio these days, I guess it's all about the trade offs we can live with in a given situation.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth
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voip
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget that audio tracks recorded in the Kronos Sequencer are saved on the Kronos' SSD as .wav files, so could be copied across to a PC or Mac-based audio production environment.

.
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