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Backing up Kronos to Hard drive or USB

 
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Alp
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Joined: 09 Jan 2010
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:17 am    Post subject: Backing up Kronos to Hard drive or USB Reply with quote

Hi there.
I am having some trouble installing a library package and I thought I would ask a question about something that has caught my attention before I go further into the unknown.

The instructions recommended to backup the Kronos before installing the sound package. And then doing a factory reset by loading files called "clean" in the instruction video. I imagine those would be the same as the files called Factory and Factory V2 on the Kronos which I got from my brother.
As I got it from my brother... I really don't know what he did with it. It has a LOT of added stuff.

Anyhow... I go into DISK. I select HDD. I go into SAVE (bottom TAB). I select Save All from drop down on the upper right, I name the file to be copied as saveall-kronos .... and it copies everything from the internals of the kronos to the HDD.
Right??

I copy the files from my kronosHDD to USB stick. Factory, FactoryV2, Saveall-kronos, a folder called korg options.. all of it.

When I put the usb stick into my computer and check the file sizes of the directories...
The saveall-kronos files total LESS THAN the factory folder.
My factory folder is 181 MB. There is also a factory V2 Folder of 24 MB.

I have to assume that if back up the entire contents of the kronos that it would total MORE than the factory folder total size!

But the saveall-kronos files only total 50 MB!

What am I missing? I do NOT want to factory reset again until I get this sorted out.
I have already followed the instructions once though I am not 100% sure if I was succesful in reverting to factory settings/clean install.

Why is the Saveall-kronos total WAY LESS than half the total size of the factory folder ???
I assume that this folder is aclled factory because it is for clean install.

I would like this nagging question answered before I try to move forward.
Thanks

Alp
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pete.m
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 482

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Reading this and your subsequent post, I think that you need to go back to the start and learn about the installation of EXs and also the Auto-load page. I have to say that it isn't the most immediate of the Kronos functions, but it does make sense and can be done quickly once you see how.

The manual will also explain some things more concisely than you might get in a post.

Here's a link to a Korg video about installation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyTWeVBubZM. There are many similar ones out there, one of which will be presented in a way that nails it best for you.

If you go into Global and look for the KSC Autoload page, you'll see what is actually installed on the Kronos at the moment. Note that you can have loads of EXs, plus of course the Factory, installed, but that you don't need to have all of them autoload every time if you don't want to - just the ones that are checked. You'll see that there are two file sizes for each Factory or EXs folder, one for the actual size and the other (smaller) for the amount used by your RAM. This is because the Kronos streams from its SSD, rather than dumping everything in RAM.

When you're doing a backup to a USB stick, something I do once in a while just as a matter of housekeeping, it's true that the size of what is saved is less than what appears to be on the Kronos. I have no idea why that might be, but then again it's never bothered me - all I've needed to know is that the backup has been accurate and safe, and that's definitely been the case.

Sorry if this seems like a non-answer, but it is an initially confusing procedure. I'd really advise going back to the start and working through it with a couple of vids. It shouldn't take long.
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Alp
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Joined: 09 Jan 2010
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, not a non-asnwer at all.

If the kronos "streams" (what it needs?) from the SSD, then fine. I understand that it can hold way less than the complete factory library. And as a result that the backup may be smaller than what I had expected.
I just needed to confirm this before I went forward.

It is far too steep a learning curve for me. I am 63 years old. My mind is not very fast at learning new things....
I don't even know what an EX is!

It might be of help to do as you say,.. KSC autoload page, see what is installed .
look for EX17, EX18.
When I try to install that new sound package I get a warning that those EX's are not installed. Again, I have no idea what an EX is!

Thanks for the pointers!

Alp
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pete.m
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 482

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Alp,

EXs are just libraries of sounds, expansion packs that add to the Factory content. They can use new samples (hence the size of each EXs folder) or make use of the preloaded Factory samples to make new PCGs (you'll see a few of them in the Korg shop), or else a mix of the two. What you load into the Kronos when you load a new EXs will be samples plus the new programs/combis.

The Factory content is itself just a bunch of EXs (1-9, I think). All of the other EXs you'll see in the shop are just ways to augment that standard content.

I encourage you to follow the procedure via a couple of videos. You can do tons of things on the Kronos without needing to read manuals etc, but this particular job isn't like that. However, it is essentially simple - just follow a few boring instructions and you're done. I'm only one year younger than you, and you don't need to be discouraged by this picky little procedure. I've installed loads of EXs, and I never really remember how to do it - my concentration is on the music making, rather than this minor, quirky thing.

Best of luck with it and keep asking questions!
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voip
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Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 3758

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Save All operation doesn't save everything that is on the SSD. Rather it saves PCG, KSC, and KGE data. The PCG part contains the data that defines the make up of Programs and Combis (basically the parameters that define each Program, and the Timbres in a Combi, and the effects), plus the Global info. The KSC part is the Korg Sample Collection. This is not the actual samples and multisamples themselves, but it defines the grouping of samples and multisamples together for loading into Sample Banks. The KGE part of the backup contains the Korg User Generated Effects employed by KARMA.

Hope that makes sense.

.
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ChrisDuncan
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Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in the process of doing some file management myself. As Pete mentioned, I don't try to memorize this stuff, I just look up the specifics when I need to do something.

That said, along the lines of Alp's original question, last night I connected via ftp and copied the entire contents of the SSD1 root folder. It was only 535 megs, which as mentioned means that it's just getting the config files like pcg, ksc, sng, etc. and not the actual samples.

I guess if I wanted to backup the samples I'd need to open the case and pull the hard drive?
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
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Chris Duncan
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Hot Air



Joined: 20 Jul 2013
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Location: Dubai, UAE

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like you’ll need a disk image to copy everything. There is software that will copy exactly what’s on the disk, like-for-like. That might be a way (maybe even the only way) you will copy absolutely everything as an exact backup of what you presently have.
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KK
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cloned my K2's original 60 GB SSD at some point, but then deleted the image after a year or so after figuring out that the new replacement 250 GB SSD is reliable with zero problems. Since I often add new libraries and custom sample sets I create, instead I only keep the EXs installers and all the authorization codes of libraries I purchased.
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pete.m
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That said, along the lines of Alp's original question, last night I connected via ftp and copied the entire contents of the SSD1 root folder. It was only 535 megs, which as mentioned means that it's just getting the config files like pcg, ksc, sng, etc. and not the actual samples.

I guess if I wanted to backup the samples I'd need to open the case and pull the hard drive?[/quote]

That must be it, Chris - the samples aren't saved, just the rest of it. But there's no additional work needed with the sample files. You'll already have the files from any EXs you bought from your original download, and could download them again from the Korg store if need be. The Factory data is available online, too.

I think the only problem I might have is with the drum samples that I've gradually imported and organised into over 100 drum kits down the years. I still have the samples on my PC, but not in any organised state since I just assemble the drum kits in a random way. Still, that's not too important - as KK says, the SSD is very stable anyway and, if it all went wrong, I could just make up some new ones, which would be fine.
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to know, guys. Thanks for all the info.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth
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Alp
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Joined: 09 Jan 2010
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting about the actual samples not getting saved in the backups.

Do they reside on the "install DVD's"?
Are they hiding somewhere in the FACTORY folders?
Be a shame if something happened and you had to reisntall them but not have a backup or source.
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pete.m
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's extremely unlikely that you'll ever need to call upon it, but you'll find that there's all the backup you'd need archived on the Korg website. I don't remember if there's a similar backup on the Install DVDs.
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