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Debating going all in w/ Korg Collection 3: no more hardware

 
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McHale
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:45 pm    Post subject: Debating going all in w/ Korg Collection 3: no more hardware Reply with quote

Is anybody doing the soft synth thing for gigging? What are your thoughts? How difficult is it to build the equivalent to a Kronos Set List in some VST Host where it can layer different patches from different VSTi's? Is it possible to do crazy splits using different VSTI's or multiple splits from the same VSTi but with different patches? Is going poor man's Kronos a viable option?

-Mc

p.s. Korg, PLEASE hurry up with the CX-3 VSTi with Leslie effect. Tnx!
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Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).
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Sergievsky



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm about to do the same thing. I'm going to use the host GigPerformer, so still learning it. If you want to do even more fancy layering, something like Unify is worth looking into, which I'm also doing. Kronos is currently on sale where I am, but still I'm not pulling the trigger thinking I can still do all this on my laptop + all the softsynths I've already bought (which is a lot)
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McHale
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm like 95% sure I'm done with hardware going forward. Disposable controllers and softsynths are future proof. They're also WAY lighter and more flexible. It was a good run. It was a LONG run. I've used Korg hardware exclusively for about 40 years. Sad I've found a couple Kronos LS's for around $2500 but knowing how fragile they are I think soft synth is the only way to go in the future, despite it not being much cheaper. Of all the keyboard players I know, I was the only one still lugging around a synth/workstation. Everybody else went softsynths long ago.

This is a really tough decision. For the first time in my music career I won't be using any Korg hardware on stage, and I started in the 80's with the Korg PolySix, DW-6000, then the DW-8000 with a DSS-1 and DVP-1. I've wielded dual Tritons, both versions of the CX-3, M50 and M3, RADIAS, and Kronos. Korg's shortsightedness on the Nautilus finally broke the streak. No physical drawbar controls, minimal controls in general, STILL glitchy audio issues, etc. If I could have at least used a controller for the drawbars I probably would have done it but for some reason, Korg refuses to allow it. It was a conscious decision they've maintained since 2011.

I looked at GigPerformer and am currently using the free version of Cantabile 4. If I ultimately decide to go this route I'll pay the $69 for the Solo version so I can get the set list functionality. I demo'd all the Korg soft synth stuff and decided the best route is JUST using the Triton Extreme VST on an 88 key controller, a B3 VST (currently looking at Blue3 vs VB3-II) with a dedicated 61 key controller, and a FCB-1010 for all pedals and triggers. Everything else I'd need is available free - vocoder (TAL) and a sample trigger (POISE drum sampler). Not sure which audio interface yet.

I would however gladly pay Korg top dollar for a Kronos LS-like professional controller: semi-weighted keys, dual joysticks, ribbon controller, LOTS of sliders (way more than 8 - looking directly at you nano team), knobs, and pads, damper/pedal switch/expression jacks, full MIDI and USB out/hub, etc. Sadly I know it will never happen and I am forced to use junk by m-audio and Nektar.

I'll keep this thread updated with progress and gear breakdown. I'd definitely be interested in comments and criticisms along the way along with what others are doing.

-Mc
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Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a fence sitter....

I have a Yamaha Montage 7 and Kronos X 61 as my main rig, but also an NUC running Cantabile (full version) which can host any VST I care to use.

But I know other people (check out the Cantabile forum) who are doing precisely what you are thinking - Computer and controllers only and it suits them.

For a B3 emulation, it is very personal like pianos, but do check out IK B3X which is endorsed by Hammond Suzuki. Again, on the Cantabile forum there is a lot of debate as to which VST is best for B3, and the real officiandos tend to have several in their arsenal.

Interface wise I am using a Focusrite 2i4

I have written some guides on building a gig rack and setting up Cantabile. I can share the links if you wish.
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McHale
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek Cook wrote:
For a B3 emulation, it is very personal like pianos, but do check out IK B3X which is endorsed by Hammond Suzuki. Again, on the Cantabile forum there is a lot of debate as to which VST is best for B3, and the real officiandos tend to have several in their arsenal.

Interface wise I am using a Focusrite 2i4

I have written some guides on building a gig rack and setting up Cantabile. I can share the links if you wish.


I would appreciate a link to the guides. Any and all information would be very useful as I continue to plan this out.

I spent about 12 hours today going back and forth between VB3-II and Blue3 and Blue3 wins it pretty easily for me. I programmed in a few organ patches I use the most and just played various styles with headphones on. After playing Blue3 for a while and going back to VB3-II it sounded kind of dull and lifeless. Are there better B3/Leslie sims out there? Possibly but Blue3 suits me well and is easy on the resources. The customization options are incredible, way more than any other clone I've tried.

For interface I'm considering the Volt 476p. Initially I was only interested in MIDI DIN in/out with L/R audio out. I'm not all in on running my guitar through PC effects so will continue to run that straight to my hardware mixer but *MAY* want to run that through the interface someday. Not sure but I'd like the option down the road. Buy once, cry once as they say.

My biggest hangup right now is the keyboard controllers. After reading the reviews for the all of the ones I'm looking at, there's enough negative disaster reviews to make me gun shy on all of them. I may just buy the extended warranty and ignore the reviews. Keybed-wise the m-audio Oxygen Pro 61 has the best feeling keys but more than a few people complained about burned out displays and pitch drifting after a short while. As for an 88 keybed, the options are even less when talking synth/semi-weighted action. I may get stuck with the Novation Launchkey.

-Mc
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Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).
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Sergievsky



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m real happy with the Motu M4, it’s a great interface & I highly recommend it. I bought a couple of Midi Fighter Twister controllers because I think if I do the softsynth route, it’ll be much more functional & enjoyable with knobs & faders. The gigs I do can almost always provide keyboards, so if I can limit to using those just for the keybed, and all the controls with small, portable controllers (knobs, faders, buttons) that I can configure at home & bring, all fitting in a backpack, well, for me it’s ideal. That said I do have an NI Komplete Kontrol keyboard and I think it’s great.
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McHale wrote:
Derek Cook wrote:
For a B3 emulation, it is very personal like pianos, but do check out IK B3X which is endorsed by Hammond Suzuki. Again, on the Cantabile forum there is a lot of debate as to which VST is best for B3, and the real officiandos tend to have several in their arsenal.

Interface wise I am using a Focusrite 2i4

I have written some guides on building a gig rack and setting up Cantabile. I can share the links if you wish.


I would appreciate a link to the guides. Any and all information would be very useful as I continue to plan this out.

I spent about 12 hours today going back and forth between VB3-II and Blue3 and Blue3 wins it pretty easily for me. I programmed in a few organ patches I use the most and just played various styles with headphones on. After playing Blue3 for a while and going back to VB3-II it sounded kind of dull and lifeless. Are there better B3/Leslie sims out there? Possibly but Blue3 suits me well and is easy on the resources. The customization options are incredible, way more than any other clone I've tried.

For interface I'm considering the Volt 476p. Initially I was only interested in MIDI DIN in/out with L/R audio out. I'm not all in on running my guitar through PC effects so will continue to run that straight to my hardware mixer but *MAY* want to run that through the interface someday. Not sure but I'd like the option down the road. Buy once, cry once as they say.

My biggest hangup right now is the keyboard controllers. After reading the reviews for the all of the ones I'm looking at, there's enough negative disaster reviews to make me gun shy on all of them. I may just buy the extended warranty and ignore the reviews. Keybed-wise the m-audio Oxygen Pro 61 has the best feeling keys but more than a few people complained about burned out displays and pitch drifting after a short while. As for an 88 keybed, the options are even less when talking synth/semi-weighted action. I may get stuck with the Novation Launchkey.

-Mc


Hi, here you go. Hope they are useful.

How to build a Gig Rack Guide
Cantabile Guide (in addition to all the excellent tutorial material that Brad has on his Cantabile website.

Re organs for a number of years I used a combination of VB3-II and the IK Leslie, but when IK Multimedia brought out the B3-X, i felt it was a game changer and I am slowly moving to that It is of course a very subjective choice and we it is great we have plenty of choice. Smile

But check out this demo. I admit I am a prog head, and it is rare for organ demos to stray away from blues, jazz and Gospel, so even two years on, this demo still blows me away

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsosCZJ-QQ0

Re controllers, I have been brought up up Yamaha semi-weighted (DX7, SY, EX5) and I like my bottom tier to be 76 note. When I was looking to retire my Yamaha EX5 from gigging I seriously considered going controller only for the bottom tier, as with Cantabile, VSTs and a Kronos X61 (top tier), well that is a killer combination, and controller only would of course be much cheaper.

But you know what? I could not find a 76 controller that was current! 61 notes is too small (for me on the bottom tier) and I am not a pianist so do not really like/need fully weighted keys (and they kill your hands on Glissando runs).

All vendors seem to have variations of 25, 49, 61, 88 in their rangfes, but no 76 options. So one day at a loss of not finding any 76 controller (and, if truth be known, after a nice work bonus) I demoed a Montage 7 instore, and 30 minutes later walked out with it. It was the controller I needed with another two great synth engines to boot.
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McHale
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some great info in your guide, thanks. It's a LOT to process so I'll go through it slowly with Cantabile up and in front of me.

For organs, I'm shying away from sample-based and trying to minimize system resources. VB3 and Blue3 are light on resources and either would work in a pinch. In a mix, I can't hear a difference.

I hear you on the Yamaha 76 keybed. I pulled out my Triton Pro last night to convert some more patches to the Triton Extreme VST and it was such a joy to play again. I don't think there ever was a better keybed. One of the hangups I had with Yamaha is losing Korg's 4 way joystick. I love that thing.

Before the Kronos I used Triton Pro 76 on the bottom, and M3 73 or M50 73 on top (if needed on the gig). I've also done a lot of shows with just one or the other. Once I got the Kronos 88 I made it a point to use just one keyboard and had some crazy splits and layers. But it was very doable. Going forward It'll probably be a Novation Launchkey 88 on the bottom and some 61 key controller on top dedicated to B3.
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Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha).
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