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Another startup failure thread
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cjfox



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again I jinxed things by posting I had it fixed. After some time (1-2 hours) of using it, the screen becomes unresponsive, and none of the controls work. The keyboard still plays the last sound that was selected. I can get it to work by turning it off and on again. Before anyone has suggestions : I am using a UPS, the RAM is new, I just replaced the motherboard with a used one, it's not overheating, the temp does not go above 49C. The SSD was an upgrade that worked fine for 18 months. The unreliability of it kills me, if this were a PC desktop, I would have had it working a long time ago. Is it the ARM board?
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cjfox



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm hoping one of the more knowlegeble persons can shed some light.
1. It does not freeze when using the sounds and playing from the set list. I've had it up to three hours like this. 2. It freezes when I access the global menu or the disk menu. Usually I'm accessing the global menu to see what the temp is. 3. When it freezes the disc activity light comes on and stays on. I got it work breifly by pressing exit, but eventually it froze with the disc light on. It will start up again with no issues. I'm thinking maybe the SSD? or is this some software corruption?
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KK
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, sometimes complicated problems need some trial and error tests and it's definitely the case here.

I remember that Dan from Korg said the motherboard and CPU section is the one dealing with the audio, synthesis, effects, sequencer and KARMA. So definitely your problem is not from there. You mention the unit freezes in Disk mode and also in Global mode, which also has entry tabs to write in the SSD. Same with the Sampling mode.

Here are a few tests I would do :

1) Staying in Program mode, try to duplicate some existing programs in empty program slots. Check if the Kronos freezes while saving.

2) Staying in Combi mode, try to duplicate some existing combis in empty combis slots. Check if the Kronos freezes while saving.

3) If you are used to Sampling mode, try to sample anything (it can be silence) with the default setting of RAM (under the Recording tab / REC Sample Setup / Save To). Then select Disk for this parameter instead and try to sample directly on disk. This setting will attempt to create a wave file on the SSD. Check if the Kronos freezes while sampling directly on disk.

If your unit freezes during writing, the SSD is the next suspect. The SSD itself could be just fine, but with its OS corrupted. Or the SSD could be way too full. Try to check the free space on it in Global mode (Media Info tab). I often read SSDs at more than 75% of their full capacity can misbehave. Or it could be a defective SATA cable, but IIRC I think you already replaced it.

Finally, if the SSD is not too full and the problem continues, the next step would be A) do a complete Save All and backup of everything and B) reinstall the SSD OS from scratch. Finally, if you happen to have SSD test programs (such as CrystalDisk and so on) on your computer, you could also test its health externally by removing it temporarily. Keep us posted.
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cjfox



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks KK, I'm sure it's an issue with the read/write on the SSD. If I'm using regular synth sound, you can see there is no activity on the Disc LED, and I can go for a long time with out issue, however if I switch to a piano sound, you can see the Disc LED flashing to indicate it is reading from the SSD, and shortly after it will freeze. Accessing the global and disc modes activates the LED as well and precipitates freeze. I have backed up my programs and stuff, so next I will re-install the OS from DVD. I'm assuming not to do a format just yet. Also: If I go the route of a new SSD, should I format and install from DVD, or clone the old SSD? If there is a software corruption might a clone just get errors copied onto the new drive?
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cjfox



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant to add there's 34 gigs free on a 64 gig drive. I don't think it's too full.
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KK
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

If the SSD is only about half full this cannot cause problem, so the current suspect could be corrupted OS. Definitely do not clone if you go with a new larger disk to make sure you start with a clean OS. It will take a little longer to complete, but you will eliminate those risks for sure.

Before starting anything, make sure to do a Save All of your entire Kronos. Hopefully your Kronos can still write at least on an USB key or you have a recent Save All or full backup. Make sure to write down your unique Kronos public ID (hopefully you can still quickly reach the Options Info tab in Global mode to see it) and have all your authorization codes for each library, including the extra third party ones if there were any added on the original SSD. If you have a Korg account on their site (https://id.korg.com/users/sign_up) you might already have all of those secured.
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BlackForest
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Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 209
Location: German, Black Forest

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cjfox wrote:
I meant to add there's 34 gigs free on a 64 gig drive. I don't think it's too full.


Hi cjfox, have you had success yet with re-installing the OS?
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Korg DS-8, Roland D-10, M1Rex, Wavestation, Korg SP-280, JV2080, Wavestate, Kronos LS - all RIP
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cjfox



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2022 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I re-installed the OS, that part went smoothly. Same issues. Works fine for 1-2 hours then the disc activity LED stays lit, and eventually it freezes. I've ordered a new samsung SSD and SATA cable, and I've already got a re-authorization code. I'll test it later this week.
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cjfox



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2022 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should add I was already registered on the Korg site, and all my info is there.
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cjfox



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to have to take a break from this project as it's driving me crazy. I got a new SSD, a samsung 240gig, hooked it up, loaded the DVD and pressed enter when prompted to format and install from scratch. Hours went by, so I stopped and tried again. same thing. So I though I would hook up the old SSD as it will work for a while. Now the display doesn't work, Totally black. I checked all the wiring, as this was my first thought, but no progress. I can see the disc activity LED flashing, so it's firing up, but of course with no display it's useless. I am so fed up with this instrument, I've had Korg gear for years and have been a loyal supporter, but this is too much. I mentioned earlier that I took it to the "authorized" Korg repair tech and he didn't even look at it for 4 months.
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cjfox



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK going to give it another shot. Disassembled everything once more, no obvious loose cables, checked the power supply again, OK, The disc activity LED flashed indicating activity. I need to test the LCD display, any pointers? I't currently totally dead.
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cjfox



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More info, I am using my old hard drive and it will boot up with no display and play combis and programs which I enter with the numeric keypad. I'm wondering if I get the Kronos Remote app, I will be able to access the display. I'm going to leave it on until it freezes and check voltages while I have it open. Hope springs eternal!
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KK
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

Some more ideas like that in no particular order.

Because I find it very odd that you now have a problem with the LCD, I continue to think that your problem has to do with something more basic, for example something shorts out somewhere and then the power become insufficient, etc.

A very fragile thing I saw in the Kronos is the sub-circuit at one corner of the motherboard (MOBO), where there are also several wires nearby. IOW, look at the MOBO PCB corner closer to the keyboard action and inner/towards the center of the Kronos. That small sub-circuit is vertically inserted in the MOBO PCB in its 10-pin digital I/O connector. On this tiny sub-circuit you can see some ICs and also a connector with wires. Many sure nothing there is loose or partially unplugged or damaged, since the 10-pin connector on the MOBO includes ground and power pins, so a short or bad connection there would obviously create power problems in your Kronos. This is all very fragile as custom built for the MOBO. Make sure to discharge your hand and fingers completely touching a grounded area before touching anything there. Also two of the wires (orange/brown on a K2) inserted in that sub-circuit go on a connector of the large PCB for the RiGHT controls (which include the data wheel and so on). Make sure this is correctly connected.

Finally, about your LCD screen, contrary to the K2 some of the older Kronos models use a 2-wire backlight "side connector" (identified as CN23 on the LCD control PCB on a K2). On a K2 the LCD screen simply needs to be grounded correctly, but in your case this connection might be loose or something. This can be verified looking at the control PCB attached to the LCD screen.

If all that is OK, then the next step will be to check several reference points throughout your unit with a scope or multimeter to see what happens. There are several listed in the service manual, but from there it will become more complicated and you might need to find a service tech.
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cjfox



Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I'll get to work.
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KK
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Fragile sub-circuit to inspect closely. It is glued in place and I recall someone having it partly unsoldered after some years. Also, note the orange and brown wires at bottom of connector.



2) Inspect the orange/brown wires from previous pic to the right control PCB connector. Mine is unplugged here and the connector is on other side of PCB. You don't have to undo the PCB to see but the wires should be tight in the connector if you pull gently on them.



3) Extra wires going to the backlight LCD control PCB connector in certain older Kronos models. Yours might not have that, but if so check the wires for damage, continuity and the connection.



4) C23 connector on the LCD control PCB. On a K2, it is not used as different config.

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