Korg Forums

[philcoul]

Hi,
I have been struggling for days to find a way to alter the volume of each of my combi timbre. In fact I want to affect each timbre volume with my AKAI MPK49 MIDI controller faders. What is the best way to do that? In fact what MIDI messages should I send to my Triton to achieve this?
I am new to this world.
Thanks
Phil
p.s. Oops, forgot to says that I am using the VST version of Triton.

[bpoodoo]

Unfortunately I don't think you can easily convert a Triton into something like a Yamaha Motif where you can use physical sliders to adjust the volume of different timbres or parts of a layered sound. On the Triton you can use insert effects with controllable output level or gain to control the volume of timbres routed to them, but that's more of a workaround not a general purpose solution.

I don't think you can control the levels of individual timbres in Combination mode except by using the touchscreen. To control them externally, you would need to separate out the timbres into separate MIDI channels to control their volumes independently. But for the internal tone generator for a timbre to sound in Combination mode (unless it's being played by the Arpeggiator), the MIDI channel must be set to the Global MIDI channel (usually 01G). The result of sending a MIDI volume change message over the Global MIDI channel would be that all timbre volumes are changed.

However, in Sequencer mode it might work. Any of the 16 MIDI channels can sound the internal tone generator in Sequencer mode. When a track is set to INT, MIDI data is processed the same whether the source is from an external controller, from the playback of a sequence, or from playing live on the Triton keyboard.

I know it is possible to change the volume of tracks from the touchscreen and record those changes in real time into a sequence. When you play back that sequence (or a MIDI file created from that sequence), you will see the levels change on the touchscreen for those tracks.

Changes to these levels are stored as CC #7 (Volume) on the MIDI channel assigned to that track. If other tracks share that MIDI channel, their volume will also be affected by that CC #7 control change event. So on your external controller you should be able to assign sliders for each MIDI channel to send CC#7 volume control messages to change the volume of each sequencer track.

But alas, since you're using the VST which has no Sequencer mode... I don't think this can be done.
_________________
bpoodoo
Triton Extreme 88 w/MOSS
"We all move on, like centuries and doves."

[philcoul]

Hi
Thanks for the reply. In fact, as of now, using the plugin, I am able to assign my controller faders to the AMP level of each OSC by right-clicking, choosing 'Midi Learn CC...' and moving the fader. So to control a timbre with 2 OSC, I'd need to move 2 faders simultaneously. It works but is not practical at all.
Does anyone knows if there even a Midi message for such purpose? If not, I doubt that this is possible even on the HW synth
Thanks

[philcoul]

Hi bpoodoo,
I tried your last paragraph option, setting different channels for each timbre.
MidiOX shows that moving each controller fader sends the CC7 on the related channel. The issue is that notes are played on a specific channel from the controller. If I set channel 2 for the notes on my controller (common channel), only timbre 2 sounds. But my purpose was to play all timbres and only control their volumes from my controller's fader.

[bpoodoo]

Right - And I think that's the quandary / deadlock - for the internal tone generator to sound a timbre in a Combi, the MIDI channel for those timbres must be set to the global MIDI channel. But to change volumes for different timbres independently, you need to use different MIDI channels.

What was needed, and I don't think it exists, was a system exclusive or NRPN MIDI message implemented by Korg that would allow you to have a "hook" into the internals of a Combination so you could modify the volume levels of any of timbres 1-8.

I'm not sure you can even do this on Kronos (except perhaps with Karma).
_________________
bpoodoo
Triton Extreme 88 w/MOSS
"We all move on, like centuries and doves."

[philcoul]

Hi bpoodoo or others
May be you can answer this one also.
The Triton Midi implementation document says the following:
2-4-2 UNIVERSAL SYSTEM EXCLUSIVE MESSAGES ( REALTIME )
Master Volume
[ F0,7F,0g,04,01,vv,mm,F7 ] 3rd byte g : Global Channel
6th byte vv : Value(LSB)
7th byte mm : Value(MSB)
mm,vv = 00,00 - 7F,7F : Min - Max


Have you been successful in sending SysEx message to the Triton?
On my side, for the Triton Ex plugin, it is failing for a simple command as F0,7F,00,04,01,00,00,F7 to silence channel 1 (Global Ch). There is no place on the plugin to configure SysEx messages, However CC or PRGM Change midi messages works fine.
Thanks

[bpoodoo]

Not having the Triton VST or an external MIDI controller, The closest thing I can do to simulate an external controller of the Triton is to play back a recorded sequence.

I tried this by copying a Combi into a sequence and assigning Master Volume to Knob 2. I recorded some master volume changes from Knob 2 and looked at the event editor and saw that they were saved as "EXCL" events. Playing back the sequence the master volume did change as expected.

However, for these EXCL events to be recorded in the sequence, I had to Check the box "Enable Exclusive" from GLOBAL>MIDI>MIDI Filter.

Curiously, if I then unchecked "Enable Exclusive" and played back the sequence, the master volume events were still processed and changed the master volume.

Unfortunately I can't expand these EXCL events to see the values comprising it, but I suspect it's the same one as above.
_________________
bpoodoo
Triton Extreme 88 w/MOSS
"We all move on, like centuries and doves."

[philcoul]

Hi bpoodoo
Regarding changing the timbre volume on my Triton Ex VST I found a work around:
1. Instead of using the standalone Triton SW I used its plugin in my DAW
2. I used another plugin that allows me to filter CC07 message for specific channels
3. On the Triton, I configured each Combi timbre to use different channels
4. I created a DAW controller track to receive its input from my controller. The controller plays note on ch1 but the CC messages are from ch1, 2, and 3 as fader 1 is assigned to CC07 ch1, fader 2 to CC07 ch2 and fader 3 to CC07 ch3
5. In my DAW I created 3 more tracks for each combi timbre. They are supposed to receive their input from the DAW controller track in step 4 above. However here is the trick. To ensure that each track does not send unwanted message to the Triton, I used a Midi Filter plugin to ensure that for example Track 1 only receive CC07 on ch1, track 2 CC07 only on ch2 and Track 3 receives only CC07 on ch3. Then, each timbre tracks send their input (notes on ch1 and CC07 on ch1, 2 or 3) only to the Triton Ex combi channel.

It is a bit hard to explain but it worked for me. I could control the volume of each combi timbre that way.
Thanks

[bpoodoo]

Amazingly, I understood everything you just said A great example of using MIDI creatively and effectively to make it work exactly as you conceptualized it. Nice job!
_________________
bpoodoo
Triton Extreme 88 w/MOSS
"We all move on, like centuries and doves."