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quantize fill to start from next beat

 
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liam_1a



Joined: 25 May 2021
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:44 pm    Post subject: quantize fill to start from next beat Reply with quote

Is there any option to quantize/align fill to start from
Next beat?

Now if I play style: 1/4 … 2/4 ..(click on fill).. 3/4 …4/4
The fill start from the middle of 2/4
Is there any option to wait and start from the next beat (3/4)?
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siebenhirter
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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1825

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: quantize fill to start from next beat Reply with quote

liam_1a wrote:
Is there any option to quantize/align fill to start from
Next beat? ..


In manual ( Synchronizing, Cue mode for the Style Element) you will find how you can decide how a Fill Style Element will enter after having been selected.

With cue mode "Immediate, first measure" the fill enters immediately, and begins from the first measure.
With cue mode "Immediate, current measure" the fill enters immediately, and begins from the current measure.
With cue mode "Next measure, first measure" the fill enters at the beginning of the next measure, and begins from the first measure of the new pattern.
These settings are made for each Fill separately and memorized after written with a style.
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- siebenhirter, austria -

Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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liam_1a



Joined: 25 May 2021
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I know about cue mode, but it’s exactly the issue when I press on fill
Button it start immediately.

Again each measure(bar) you can split to 4 beats. The problem the korg pa isn’t so smart. And if you count 1/4 an 2/4 an.. press fill) it immediately start the fill I want my korg to wait until the 3/4 and start the flll
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siebenhirter
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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:58 am    Post subject: exact timing with Fill In Reply with quote

liam_1a wrote:
.. cue mode, but it’s exactly the issue when I press on fill Button it start immediately.

Again each measure(bar) you can split to 4 beats. The problem the korg pa isn’t so smart. And if you count 1/4 an 2/4 an.. press fill) it immediately start the fill I want my korg to wait until the 3/4 and start the flll ...


Fills does not start immediately after the button has been pressed, if the cue mode "Next measure, first measure" is used. It only is necessary to prepare your fills and change the cue-mode of that fill you want to use for an exact timing of a special quarter, if you intend to.

If you therefore need a fill-in to start it exact at 3/4, create a half bar fill and have no problems starting it exactly with "Next measure, first measure" as one needs it. With a Pa-arranger, you always have the option of preparing fill-ins the way you prefer them.

This makes you much more comfortable and variable than with arranger keyboards from other brands, where you can't find this feature in the top models either ----> http://dromeusik.blogspot.com/p/style-spiel.html - Tyros Styles: The timing for fill-in and break-fill (in German language only).

If you are familiar with record-style features of Pa-arrangers you can vary length and meter to built fills according to your needs; you even can use other style elements (break, intro) as fill elements, if the existing fill elements are not sufficient for you.
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- siebenhirter, austria -

Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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Korghelper
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 584

PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roland always dropped into a fill as soon as you pressed the button.

The problem is, how do you deal with two bar fills? Roland’s system didn’t really do those, most styles used a one bar fill which, if you asked for it on or after ‘4’ you got the entire fill, and if you asked for it on late ‘1’ or ‘2’ or ‘3’ it would drop into the fill at that point.

But with a two bar fill, the machine has to assume your verses or choruses are ALWAYS an even number of bars (which some are not!) so if you call for a fill at the end of an even bar it plays both bars, and if you call for it in an odd bar, it just plays the one. But try calling for a one bar fill in an even bar, you are pretty much out of luck.

Roland’s solution was to simply have one bar fills. Didn’t matter when you asked for them. Bit less complex, but easier to stay consistent with. And asking for the fill late on ‘3’ tended to make it more of a ‘pickup’ than a true fill.

Longer fills are cool, but they have their drawbacks too…
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:52 pm    Post subject: Halfbar / One Bar / Two Bar - Fill-In Reply with quote

Hello,
To prevent misunderstandings due to the translation of different languages:
OP is using the designation BEAT for subdivision of MEASURES from style elements.
With Korg it depends using parameter key the amount of bars of 3/4 is NO EVEN and the amount auf bars of meter key 4/4 is EVEN.
Now the length of a style element maybe one or two measures (or even more), but designation of HALFBAR means a Fill with two BEATS (half a bar of 4/4 measure).
A two-bar-fill maybe that are 8 beats of 4/4 measure ore maybe it are 6 beats of 3/4 measures.

*
Korghelper wrote:
..Roland always dropped into a fill as soon as you pressed the button...…

.. also works with Korg when using the cue mode "Immediate".

Korghelper wrote:
..The problem is, how do you deal with two bar fills? Roland’s system didn’t really do those, most styles used a one bar fill which, if you asked for it on or after ‘4’ you got the entire fill, and if you asked for it on late ‘1’ or ‘2’ or ‘3’ it would drop into the fill at that point.

But with a two bar fill, the machine has to assume your verses or choruses are ALWAYS an even number of bars (which some are not!) so if you call for a fill at the end of an even bar it plays both bars, and if you call for it in an odd bar, it just plays the one. But try calling for a one bar fill in an even bar, you are pretty much out of luck.....…


... with Cue-Mode "Immediate, first measure" fill enters immediately, and begins from the first measure.
... with Cue-Mode "Immediate, current measure" the fill enters immediately, and begins from the current measure.
... with Cue-Mode "Next measure, first measure" the fill enters at the beginning of the next measure, and begins from the first measure of the new pattern.

If you call a fill at the and of a measure with cue-mode "next" - then regardless of whether the call is made in a measure odd or even - the fill played after this measure is played in in its full length (with two measures if fill has two bars, with one measure if fill has one bar).

Therefore it is to prevent using cue-modes "immediate" for two-bar-fills in styles with odd numbers of measures or to use cue-mode "next" or to use one-bar-fills.

If one like to strictly synchronize fills to style elements with 3 or 5 measures, it also is possible to create fills with 3 or 5 measures, to be used with cue-mode "Immediate, current measure" .

Korghelper wrote:
..Roland’s solution was to simply have one bar fills. Didn’t matter when you asked for them. Bit less complex, but easier to stay consistent with. And asking for the fill late on ‘3’ tended to make it more of a ‘pickup’ than a true fill....Longer fills are cool, but they have their drawbacks too……


... decide a fill programmed with one measure (bar with 3/4 or 4/4 or whatever meter-key is used), but only make sense to use the "immediate" cue-modes, because "next measure" cue-mode has no affect with one-measure-fill.

With the Korg Style Editor you are not restricted for musical transitions between musical sections (verse, chorus, intro, outro, bridge, solo, interlude etc) because fill-ins - or whatever you want to name these elements - from 1 up to 32 measures are possible; Half-bar fill (with 2 beats) or extremely short fill-ins (one single beat) also are to realize with it.
*

@liam_1a: If you want to start a 4-beat fill of a 4/4-meter style exactly until the third beat only to trigger at that moment (per button or pedal) would do this (with an immediate cue-mode).
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- siebenhirter, austria -

Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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Korghelper
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This seems to be good IF a style (and its fills) is written for a specific song where you know in advance if there are any odd beat sections and you want two bar fills.

It gets harder if they are generic styles, and get used in variety of songs that may or may not have odd bar number section (they are pretty common in country music!).

I have often felt that more could be done to help players decide how long a fill is even when calling for it improvisationally. Perhaps a quick tap for one bar, a slightly longer press for two? Or a velocity sensitive pad, light tap for one bar, hard tap for two?

And I’ve always wished for a way to get a slight ‘pickup’ rather than a proper fill (something without a crash, just a beat or two long). I know many styles tend to have these in if written longer (8 bar variations, for instance) and have slight pickups, but once again, you’re in trouble if the song segment has an extra bar or one fewer. I’d rather call for them with a ‘Fill to same’ system that once again, either a quick tap or light tap gets you the little pickup, and longer or harder gets you a proper fill.

I guess in the end, it just comes down to more fills. If you are using auto fill, we really need more for all possible destinations to be smooth and musical…
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