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kaossilator pro midi clock sync?

 
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winnebagoXL



Joined: 10 Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Location: yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:13 pm    Post subject: kaossilator pro midi clock sync? Reply with quote

Is it possible to sync my kaossilator pro via midi to either my mk or mkxl?
Ive tried a few ways but it doesnt seem to work.

Any help would be great.

Thanks

Joe
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Bazildon



Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pro does actually sync quite well to my dedicated midi clock.

You need to make sure you have the clock in the kpro set to auto, or if that doesn't work, set it to "ext".

Mine works well with the midi clock from my soundbite micro.
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roxxx303
Full Member


Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 120
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of the box it does not sync to the start of the patterns (only sync the tempo), but in the KPro-manual they describe a trick to sync pattern-offset with other midi-devices:
The master-midi-device must send a touchpad-on-message at the beginning of each loop to synchronize patterns.

Here's the section of the KPro-manual:

MIDI Sync function
The BPM of the KAOSSILATOR PRO can be
set to follow MIDI Time Clock messages from
an external MIDI device. Connect the MIDI
OUT connector of an external MIDI device
(such as a sequencer set to transmit MIDI time
clock messages) to the MIDI IN connector of
the KAOSSILATOR PRO.
TIP: This function will not synchronize sequence
data with the KAOSSILATOR PRO’s rhythm pattern
programs. If you want to synchronize sequenced
data and the KAOSSILATOR PRO’s internal rhythm
patterns, you will either have to insert a Touch Pad
On message into the beginning of each measure of
your sequence data, or touch the touch pad at the
beginning of each of the KAOSSILATOR PRO phrases
to start the pattern.
TIP: If you want the KAOSSILATOR PRO to receive
Timing Clock and Touch Pad On messages, go to
MIDI Setting (→p.20), and select “Applying the MIDI
message filter” (→p.21) so that these messages will
be received.

perhaps this helps?
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Current Gear:
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Darkmata



Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Posts: 21
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

did anyone actually get this working? the manual says it's possible but in reality i can't get it going?
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Gear: 2x KP3, Kaossilator pro, Boss RC-50, , PRS mcarty guit, Roland GR-55, APC40, Ableton Live 8......ohDidgerydoo, darabukadydoo, kazoo & that'l Do

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fractous



Joined: 17 Aug 2016
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:01 pm    Post subject: kaossilator pro midi sync Reply with quote

Hi everyone

I have managed to sync every MIDI devices together into an analogic chain but i still cannot get my Kaossilator Pro synchronized to my sequencers' sequences as the manual explains.

Anyone managed to "Send a touch-pad-on-message" from the master device to the kaossilator?

Maybe on the Kaossilator if you go to MIDI (SHIFT-(4) - MSSG - PAdt - "C.000 (to C.127) it will ask to the message if the "play" command set to a message as "C.00 to -C.127" (set from step sequencer midi chart)
It seems logical is not it? Anyone tried this yet? If nobody did, I'm trying now.

And sorry for not telling who I am but I hope lots of people are looking up to find how to sync their kaossilator cause a kaossilator has a very friendly interface and expanding its functionalities would be even greater...
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LD50



Joined: 08 Feb 2021
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've come across this thread having just picked up a Kaossilator pro this week and a kaoss pad a few months back. Love them both to bits but so far haven't been able to keep time for toffee

tbh i thought it was something i was doing wrong, but eventually realised that the timing actually does wander, which is when I came across this thread.

The good news is that I've had *some* success with the timing thing. Not 100% but enough for the pads to be usable in the way I intended (i.e. loops, but in time Wink).

As stated by @fractous and also in the Kpro manual on page 10 where it's talking about the midi sync function:

Quote:

"TIP: This function will not syncronize the sequence data with the KPRO's rhythm pattern programs. If you want to syncronize sequenced data with the KPRO's internal thyrthm patterns (i.e. if you want your other instruments/daw to be in time with your pad/s) you will have to insert a "Touch pad on" message into the beginning of each measure of your sequenced data, or touch the touch pad at the beginning of each of the KPRO's phrases to start the pattern"


Ok so i tested this by setting my sequencer going and just tapping the top left corner of the Kaossilator Pro at the start of each bar, and as if by magic it didn't wander.

So I got a trial copy of ableton, made a blank midi sequence/block (or put some notes in so you can tell it's playing, doesn't matter). Then down where it has the instrument properties and piano roll there's a (tiny) little "e" to show "envelopes" (CC controllers). Click to show that and whilst by default it shows velocity or whatever, there's a little dropdown which lets you access ALL the CC numbers.

So I picked CC#92 which is (according to kpro manual page 22) the cc message number to send and set a value of 128, and made sure the rest of the measure had value 0 (you can kinda draw the values, easier to do than explain).

Obviously you need to set that "pattern" active in ableton, but once I'd done that and set up midi on the computer to sync my hardware, it actually worked \o/

What's more I thought while I never saw any message about doing this with the Kaoss Pad KP3, I wonder if it works on that too.. and it also does!!


CAVEATS: (of which there are definitely some)
==============================

1) The Kpro seems to try to "fix" the sync so if it's out by a bit it'll speed up/slow down to align to the nearest bar. So you still need *some* sense of timing i.e. the KPRO runs its loops all the time so I tend to have the kpro playing a loop and start my sequencer/computer as close to the correct beat/bar as possible so that it aligns properly (and give it a bar or two to get itself perfectly aligned). Don't expect to just hit play from stopped and it all magically starts in time like with normal midi equipment. You'll want things playing and check it's all aligned before dropping it into a mix..which is a bit of a faff but still less of a faff than not being able to use my pads at all (and no more of a faff than DJs have).

If you have a KP3 as well then you need to "align" (i.e. shift + "tap/range" to set downbeat) that manually with the KPRO/rest once it's synced (midi will already be in sync but the downbeat will prob be in the wrong place).

If you've done all that according to plan then they should both be (and stay) synced.


Please note: The KP3 can (and does) get knocked out of sync, though it just needs another "align" and you're good again. Since the kpro seems to "fix" the timing somehow (by rubberbanding to the nearest downbeat) it doesn't seem to go out like the kp3, and if it does (e.g. from processing lag) then it fixes it without me noticing since the adjustment is tiny.

The kp3 getting knocked out is frustrating when you're in a live mix but it's actually been tolerable. I only figured this stuff out this last weekend so there's probably more to learn stull but even so I had mixes of a couple of hours where the timing stayed in so i still can't be sure it's not *me* that's knocking it out somehow, or some particular operation on the device causes momentary lag. idk. I tend to try and keep a beat on sample bank A on the KP3 so I can check the alignment on headphones/cue before dropping the kp3 into the mix.

I haven't quite figured what knocks them out of sync - the KPRO seems to stay in once it's in but the KP3 does go out .. sometimes after a few mins or sometimes it's good for a couple of hours before it wanders. I wonder if perhaps when it has to stop and think about something it maybe loses a bit of timing then? idk. Still working on this.


2) You may also find that samples/loops you've recorded previously on KPRO/KP3 don't align properly with your midi loops. This is because till now the KPRO/KP3 were basically in their own little world as far as timing goes and even a fraction of a second difference between the pads and the sequencer makes things sound off. Loops you record whilst using the above timing setup should be perfectly in time but prior ones might need a bit of work.

On the Kpro you're out of luck since there doesn't seem to be a way to adjust the position of the samples other than exporting them via librarian (the kpro software) and adjusting the timing of the wav files on the computer and then re-exporting them to the Kpro (tedious).

On the KP3 however you can just hit shift+bank a/b/c/d and you can adjust the timing offset of pre-existing loops by +/-1 bar (or beat?). either way, that worked really well to adjust loops to get them all perfectly in time with my midi sequencer. Normally they just need a tiny nudge of 0.1 or 0.2 either direction. It would have been nice to have an extra digit of resolution since normally they ended up slightly between to values but hey, can't have everything.



3) Even when in sync as per above, on the KP3 rhythm patterns won't stay in time if you just leave them playing. And by that I mean exactly: if you get the pads synced as above but then tap (and hold) a beat it'll start off in time but it will still wander after a few measures. However if you (re)sample the beat to a bank and then play the sample back *it will stay in time* - presumably because the note_on thing at the top of each measure keeps re-aligning it. I've not yet tested this on the kpro but am expecting similar outcome




In conclusion - yes this is hella annoying that they don't actually stay in time out of the box, *especially* as these are such unique and interesting instruments. I absolutely LOVE the expressiveness and directness of the pads andwith just my Kpro and KP3 I can make some amazing sounds which tickle my soul in all the right places, so I **really** wanted to figure something out here, whcih also means I'll put up with quite a lot of BS in order to get it to work. Which is good, because this isn't really a reasonable outcome for a digital device from an industry behemouth like Korg.

However it is what it is, and it doesn't look like Korg is going to update the software, so it's either sell the pads or Make It Work Somehow. Tho I wonder if the electribe shaman could be convinced to have a look?



Other cool related stuff to check out:
----------------------------------------------------------
Retrokits RK002 smart midi cable - which can be set up to work like a midi "filter". so you put it upstream of your Kpro and it will convert note_on messages from your keyboard or whatever to the CC# values needed to "play" the kpro (notes) over midi. So you get access to all the Kpro goodness but with note accuracy which you can play from a keyboard or other midi device (also means you can sequence note-accurate Kpro playback from a computer). May also work with KP3 since they handle pad messages the same sorta way.

I've not yet got one of these but it's on my shopping list asap. have a search and you'll see what I mean Wink


--

I haven't yet tested adding a note_on message more often - e.g. every bar instead of every 4 bars. Maybe it would improve the accuracy or completely mess it up - I'll update this once i've tested.
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