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Korg XE20 - style compatibility

 
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DjTogu



Joined: 13 Nov 2020
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:44 pm    Post subject: Korg XE20 - style compatibility Reply with quote

Hi
Why the korg, when releasing the new XE20 piano, made styles compatible only with the PA50. The senior Korg HAVIAN 30 instrument who is also an arranger and piano has the ability to read styles from the PA600.
s there a chance that in the future a software update in XE20 will read styles from PA600 or newer?

I would like to buy the KORG HAVIAN 30 but it is no longer produced. Why didn't KORG produce a replacement? XE20 is probably a combination of the old PA50 module from 2005-2008 with a piano keyboard. What do you think about it?
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Korg XE20 - style compatibility Reply with quote

DjTogu wrote:
Hi
Why the korg, when releasing the new XE20 piano, made styles compatible only with the PA50. The senior Korg HAVIAN 30 instrument who is also an arranger and piano has the ability to read styles from the PA600.
s there a chance that in the future a software update in XE20 will read styles from PA600 or newer?

I would like to buy the KORG HAVIAN 30 but it is no longer produced. Why didn't KORG produce a replacement? XE20 is probably a combination of the old PA50 module from 2005-2008 with a piano keyboard. What do you think about it?


The XE20 is a cross between the EK50 and the B2. It is different than the Havian and the PA series.

The last time they released an 88-key arranger before the Havian was the PA588. There is not much call for an 88-key arranger (although I would be one that would want one).

I am not sure what they have coming down the pipe for another 88-key arranger. Considering that the XE20 came out this year, I doubt they have anything new beyond what they've released in the last few days.

Grace,
Harry
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DjTogu



Joined: 13 Nov 2020
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Korg XE20 - style compatibility Reply with quote

Musicwithharry wrote:
DjTogu wrote:
Hi
Why the korg, when releasing the new XE20 piano, made styles compatible only with the PA50. The senior Korg HAVIAN 30 instrument who is also an arranger and piano has the ability to read styles from the PA600.
s there a chance that in the future a software update in XE20 will read styles from PA600 or newer?

I would like to buy the KORG HAVIAN 30 but it is no longer produced. Why didn't KORG produce a replacement? XE20 is probably a combination of the old PA50 module from 2005-2008 with a piano keyboard. What do you think about it?


The XE20 is a cross between the EK50 and the B2. It is different than the Havian and the PA series.

The last time they released an 88-key arranger before the Havian was the PA588. There is not much call for an 88-key arranger (although I would be one that would want one).

I am not sure what they have coming down the pipe for another 88-key arranger. Considering that the XE20 came out this year, I doubt they have anything new beyond what they've released in the last few days.

Grace,
Harry


Thank you for your interest in the topic. Have you played the KORG HAVIAN 30? Does this manual sound better than the XE20? Are you able to judge it? Because I'm thinking about buying a used Havian 30 or a new XE20. best regards
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Korg XE20 - style compatibility Reply with quote

DjTogu wrote:
Musicwithharry wrote:
DjTogu wrote:
Hi
Why the korg, when releasing the new XE20 piano, made styles compatible only with the PA50. The senior Korg HAVIAN 30 instrument who is also an arranger and piano has the ability to read styles from the PA600.
s there a chance that in the future a software update in XE20 will read styles from PA600 or newer?

I would like to buy the KORG HAVIAN 30 but it is no longer produced. Why didn't KORG produce a replacement? XE20 is probably a combination of the old PA50 module from 2005-2008 with a piano keyboard. What do you think about it?


The XE20 is a cross between the EK50 and the B2. It is different than the Havian and the PA series.

The last time they released an 88-key arranger before the Havian was the PA588. There is not much call for an 88-key arranger (although I would be one that would want one).

I am not sure what they have coming down the pipe for another 88-key arranger. Considering that the XE20 came out this year, I doubt they have anything new beyond what they've released in the last few days.

Grace,
Harry


Thank you for your interest in the topic. Have you played the KORG HAVIAN 30? Does this manual sound better than the XE20? Are you able to judge it? Because I'm thinking about buying a used Havian 30 or a new XE20. best regards


I have a friend who has a Havian 30. I have programmed it for her and have played it. It felt pretty good and the piano sounds and other sounds were just like what one would have found on the PA300. My understanding is that the Havian 30 was basically a PA300, but in an 88-key version and maybe having a few more piano-centric sounds.

The XE20 is really based on the EK-50, but it also has the piano sounds from the B2. It is a hybrid of sorts, taking the piano sounds from the B2 and adding the arranger sounds/functions from the EK50.

If you look at the specs for the XE20, it will read similarly. The piano sounds have the same specs as the B2. Korg has even said that the piano sounds on the XE20 are from the B2. They also talk about the arranger portion being similar, if not the same, as the EK-50. The XE20 is, in my opinion, the B2 piano with the EK-50 arranger functions added.

I liked the Havian, but I thought the screen was too small and the output/MIDI connections were very limited (just as they are on the PA300).

With regard to my friend owning the Havian, I initially told her to look for the PA588, as I thought that was a better machine. She ordered one but it arrived damaged. She found the Havian and with her employee discount, got the Havian for a GREAT price.

I used to really want the PA588, but after purchasing a PA700 in 2017, I do not think that I would want the PA588 now. There is too much difference between what it is and what I have (PA700); there really is no comparison.

If you could, I would take a look at the PA700 and an 88-key controller board to trigger it. You may find that an even better option than the Havian or XE20 alone.

Grace,
Harry
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DjTogu



Joined: 13 Nov 2020
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the XE20 has better sounding styles than the HAVIAN 30?

The XE20 has a better piano than the HAVIAN 30 for sure.
Do the HAVIAN30's DACs sound the same as the PA300?

I have nowhere to buy a used HAVIAN 30.

XE20 - I have the impression that the styles sound better than in the PA50. Maybe the styles are the same but the XE20 has a better sound?

Purchase of PA700 additionally a 88-key control keyboard. will cost a lot.
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DjTogu wrote:
So the XE20 has better sounding styles than the HAVIAN 30?

The XE20 has a better piano than the HAVIAN 30 for sure.
Do the HAVIAN30's DACs sound the same as the PA300?

I have nowhere to buy a used HAVIAN 30.

XE20 - I have the impression that the styles sound better than in the PA50. Maybe the styles are the same but the XE20 has a better sound?

Purchase of PA700 additionally a 88-key control keyboard. will cost a lot.


The arranger portion of the XE20 is basically the same thing that is on the EK-50. My opinion? The Havian has better styles, as they are from the PA series. The EK-50 (and i3 (2020 model) and the XE20) are not more realistic than the Havian. THe XE20 may have more up to date types styles (not many), but I think that the quality of the Havian would be better since it is really a PA series in an 88-key format.

Yes, the piano sounds would be better on the XE20 than on the Havian. They are from a newer model unit (the B2) and the piano engine is newer with more detail. In my opinion, that is how the XE20 shines over the Havian.

I do now know about the DACs on the Havian, but I suspect that they too would be from the PA300. I doubt you would hear a difference between them. It is really the sounds that matter.

I think that you are digging a bit too deep than is really necessary. If you can find a used Havian, go for that. If not, then you either have to choose the XE20, or find a used PA700 and maybe even go for the Kross 2-88 and pair them together. I think that between the two, you would have a potent combination for ANY type of music.

I have a pretty large collection of synths in my studio and live. I use the PA700 without an 88-key controller, even though I have 3 88-key units in my studio. Two of my 88-key units are the Kross 1-88 synths. They sound really good to me and I have done a lot of programming on them to make them sound good. I have hooked up the PA700 to the Kross 1-88 before and the piano sounds translate well when played from the Kross 1-88.

If you need an 88-key unit, maybe a used Kross 1-88 could be an option. It has a lot of good sounds in it and I am happy with mine. The friend of mine that has the Havian is also looking at a Kross 1-88, as I program many of her sounds for her, and to be able to simply send her the PCG from my Kross 1-88 is easier for both of us.

Depending on where you are on this planet, the availability of the used Kross units are pretty good. I have seen them go for around $600-$800 USD. You could consider a used PA700 as well, and keep the costs to around $2,000 USD.


Grace,
Harry
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DjTogu



Joined: 13 Nov 2020
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the answer, I see you have a lot of knowledge. Could you say that the PA50SD sounds the same as the EK-50?
I need something with auto accompaniment, but the piano sound is my priority. Therefore, Kronoss 2 88 does not meet my criteria.
I will wait for 2 weeks, maybe it will be for sale havian 30 if not I will buy XE20 Smile

THX
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DjTogu wrote:
Thanks for the answer, I see you have a lot of knowledge. Could you say that the PA50SD sounds the same as the EK-50?
I need something with auto accompaniment, but the piano sound is my priority. Therefore, Kronoss 2 88 does not meet my criteria.
I will wait for 2 weeks, maybe it will be for sale havian 30 if not I will buy XE20 Smile

THX


I do not have any experience with the PA50. I can tell you that it is a OLD instrument. The EK50 might sound better, just because of new components. I am not sure if they simply copied the ROM from the PA50 over to the EK. Keep in mind that the MicroArranger came out before the EK and the MicroArranger had similar ROM to the PA50.

I did a check on eBay and Reverb and each has one has a single listing for the Havian for sale. The one listed on eBay is selling for $1900 USD and is in the state of New York and has free shipping in the US. The one on Reverb is selling for $1600 USD and is located in Italy and has a shipping fee of $180 USD.

Again, not knowing exactly where you are on this planet, I cannot really help much more than I have.

When I was mentioning the Kross (either the Kross 1 OR Kross 2), I was mentioning the Kross because it seems like you are really desiring to use an 88-key keybed. Using the Kross (either the Kross 1 or Kross 2), would give you that 88-key keybed and you could MIDI it to be able to control a 61-key arranger. You would also be able to use the sounds on the Kross to supplement your sounds from the arranger and make an even bigger sound. I was not saying that the Kross would be a replacement to an arranger - only a supplement that would give you an 88-key keybed.

The ONLY 88-key style arranger that I am currently aware of is the Korg XE20, and the Clavinova and DGX660 offerings from Yamaha.

Grace,
Harry
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DenGNNJ



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey... New to forum & saw this post.

I bought a XE-20 about a month ago. The XE-20 is a MK-50 with full weighted piano keyboard and two extra sounds. It is definitely geared toward home use however, I suppose one could gig with it.

As far as it being "based" on a past board I downloaded styles from Korg's website. One file in particular, "Pa80_Preload.zip" was interesting... it's what was loaded into the Pa80 from the factory, and came up as being compatible with the XE-20. The Pa80 style list in the zip file is 256 styles long, plus there's three "user" style files. The first 256 style names of the Pa80 and the first 256 style names of the XE-20 match exactly. I loaded the three Pa80 "user" style files into the XE-20 and they work perfectly.

If anyone wants specifics about the XE-20 from a users perspective... ask away.

Regards, Dennis
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DenGNNJ wrote:
Hey... New to forum & saw this post.

I bought a XE-20 about a month ago. The XE-20 is a MK-50 with full weighted piano keyboard and two extra sounds. It is definitely geared toward home use however, I suppose one could gig with it.

As far as it being "based" on a past board I downloaded styles from Korg's website. One file in particular, "Pa80_Preload.zip" was interesting... it's what was loaded into the Pa80 from the factory, and came up as being compatible with the XE-20. The Pa80 style list in the zip file is 256 styles long, plus there's three "user" style files. The first 256 style names of the Pa80 and the first 256 style names of the XE-20 match exactly. I loaded the three Pa80 "user" style files into the XE-20 and they work perfectly.

If anyone wants specifics about the XE-20 from a users perspective... ask away.

Regards, Dennis


Yes, the XE-20 can accept styles from the PA50/PA80 and I believe, even the MicroArranger. They all share the same file format and type. I do not believe the XE-20 can accept styles from the PA1X/PA2X/PA3X/PA300/PA500/PA600/PA700/PA900/PA1000/PA4X. I believe these are incompatible with the XE-20.

Since the XE-20 would have everything that the EK-50 and i3 (2020 version) have, it would not be fruitful to upload their styles into the XE-20 (since they are already there).

Yes, the XE-20 is basically an EK-50 with 88-keys. It does feature the two main piano sounds from the B2 as well. This is how they got the unit to support up to 184 voice polyphony. There are 120 voices for the piano sounds and 64 voices for the other sounds.

I could see the XE-20 being used for stage work, provided you were using the unit by itself or with a computer. Since it lacks the 5-pin MIDI DIN jacks that allow me to interface it with my other gear, it would not work for me on stage. Since I do not user computers on stage, the USB is meaningless to me.

I had considered the XE-20 as well, but chose a different Korg for my live rig.

Congrats on your XE-20. I hope that you get a lot of use out of it Smile

Grace,
Harry
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DjTogu



Joined: 13 Nov 2020
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Very Happy

I bought Havian 30 Smile The instrument is practically like from a store with no scratches and abrasions. Very nicely made. The sound of the accompaniment and other sounds satisfies me. I'm just a little disappointed with the piano's sound. Or I can't get a good piano sound out.

This is my first 88 weighted keyboard instrument.

I have the feeling that when playing eighth notes the key cuts off the sound of the piano. Several keys on the center keyboard also make a different noise when played.

I read on the forums that the Kronos 88 keyboard was a similar problem. The problem was that the korg used the wrong rubber bands under the keys. They were too flat. Do you know anything about it? Is it the same keyboard in Havian 30 and Kronos 88?


thx
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DjTogu wrote:
Hi Very Happy

I bought Havian 30 Smile The instrument is practically like from a store with no scratches and abrasions. Very nicely made. The sound of the accompaniment and other sounds satisfies me. I'm just a little disappointed with the piano's sound. Or I can't get a good piano sound out.

This is my first 88 weighted keyboard instrument.

I have the feeling that when playing eighth notes the key cuts off the sound of the piano. Several keys on the center keyboard also make a different noise when played.

I read on the forums that the Kronos 88 keyboard was a similar problem. The problem was that the korg used the wrong rubber bands under the keys. They were too flat. Do you know anything about it? Is it the same keyboard in Havian 30 and Kronos 88?


thx


I am not sure that there are 'rubber bands' in the keybed. You may be referring to the rubber key contacts under the keys. If so, then it sounds like that could be what the problem is. You will need to clean or replace the key contacts, as a start. Hopefully, that will take care of your problem.

The specs for the Havian 30 are still on Korg's website and the type of keybed is not mentioned, so I doubt that it is the same keybed they use in the Kronos (RH3).

Like I said earlier, a friend has the Havian 30 and when I played it (at least a few times), I thought the piano sound was pretty good. The Havian 30 is like a PA300, but with 88 weighted keys.

If you look in the PA300 section, as well as the Korg Arrangers General section, you will find more information about the Havian.

Grace,
Harry
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DenGNNJ



Joined: 14 Dec 2020
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Location: New Jersey, USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Musicwithharry wrote:
Yes, the XE-20 can accept styles from the PA50/PA80 and I believe, even the MicroArranger. They all share the same file format and type. I do not believe the XE-20 can accept styles from the PA1X/PA2X/PA3X/PA300/PA500/PA600/PA700/PA900/PA1000/PA4X. I believe these are incompatible with the XE-20.

Since the XE-20 would have everything that the EK-50 and i3 (2020 version) have, it would not be fruitful to upload their styles into the XE-20 (since they are already there).

Yes, the XE-20 is basically an EK-50 with 88-keys. It does feature the two main piano sounds from the B2 as well. This is how they got the unit to support up to 184 voice polyphony. There are 120 voices for the piano sounds and 64 voices for the other sounds.

I could see the XE-20 being used for stage work, provided you were using the unit by itself or with a computer. Since it lacks the 5-pin MIDI DIN jacks that allow me to interface it with my other gear, it would not work for me on stage. Since I do not user computers on stage, the USB is meaningless to me.

I had considered the XE-20 as well, but chose a different Korg for my live rig.

Congrats on your XE-20. I hope that you get a lot of use out of it Smile

Grace,
Harry


Thanks for you kind wishes.

The XE-20 has a lot of what the EK-50 has but not all. Some of the functionality of the EK-50 didn't make it into the XE-20 most notably, the EK-50's ability to call up the 170+ preprogrammed KEYBOARD SETS to simply play or change a STYLE with one. And, the ability to swap out one digital effect for another that's assigned to a KEYBOARD SET or STYLE is also missing from the XE-20 (one can only adjust the SEND of the two digital effects that are already there).

This is too bad because all that functionality is probably already all there, sitting inside the keyboard, with no way of accessing it. The control panel of the XE-20 is missing the buttons that are found on the EK-50 that allow access to those features. Plus, these are features found on the similarly priced direct competitor for the XE-20, the Casio PX-S3000.
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DjTogu



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure that there are 'rubber bands' in the keybed. You may be referring to the rubber key contacts under the keys. If so, then it sounds like that could be what the problem is. You will need to clean or replace the key contacts, as a start. Hopefully, that will take care of your problem.

The specs for the Havian 30 are still on Korg's website and the type of keybed is not mentioned, so I doubt that it is the same keybed they use in the Kronos (RH3).

Like I said earlier, a friend has the Havian 30 and when I played it (at least a few times), I thought the piano sound was pretty good. The Havian 30 is like a PA300, but with 88 weighted keys.

If you look in the PA300 section, as well as the Korg Arrangers General section, you will find more information about the Havian.

Grace,
Harry[/quote]


Sure my mistake KROME 88 Smile . It's definitely not the same keyboard Smile the problem with my keyboard is this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_t1dv_k53M
or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2w4-wVckb4

exactly the same :/
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DjTogu wrote:
I am not sure that there are 'rubber bands' in the keybed. You may be referring to the rubber key contacts under the keys. If so, then it sounds like that could be what the problem is. You will need to clean or replace the key contacts, as a start. Hopefully, that will take care of your problem.

The specs for the Havian 30 are still on Korg's website and the type of keybed is not mentioned, so I doubt that it is the same keybed they use in the Kronos (RH3).

Like I said earlier, a friend has the Havian 30 and when I played it (at least a few times), I thought the piano sound was pretty good. The Havian 30 is like a PA300, but with 88 weighted keys.

If you look in the PA300 section, as well as the Korg Arrangers General section, you will find more information about the Havian.

Grace,
Harry



Sure my mistake KROME 88 Smile . It's definitely not the same keyboard Smile the problem with my keyboard is this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_t1dv_k53M
or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2w4-wVckb4

exactly the same :/[/quote]

This would certainly be a different problem that notes being louder on some keys and not others. If you are having the problem with notes being louder than others or there are intermittent velocity levels, your key contacts could be dirty or have something on/in them that causes that problem. Cleaning or replacing these could fix the issue.

The keybed on the Krome, I believe, is the same that is on the Kross and Kross 2. I have 2 of the Kross 1-88 keyboards and one of them needed to go in for repair due to some of the keys not working. I suspected key contact issues, but since the synth was under warranty, I opted to send it in for repair rather than fix it myself. I was told by the repair company that there was A LOT of cat hair and other artifacts in the keybed that caused the failure. I do not have cats, so I know that the previous owner did and never maintained the keyboard. The repair company either completely replaced the keybed AND contact strips, of they replaced the contact strips and thoroughly cleaned the keybed. My keybed is whisper quiet on that keyboard now and gives me no troubles at all.

The OTHER Kross 1-88 that I bought used from a music store had some cracked keys. I opted to fix that keybed myself and ordered an octave of keys from another company and fix them. This is one of the boards I use live with my band.

The keybed is in one piece, with an aluminum bottom piece that attaches to it when it is installed into the keyboard. It is fairly simple to replace and I think that it takes longer to remove/replace the screws on the case than it actually does to place in a new keybed.

With the Havian, it might be a bit different. If you believe that the keybed on the Havian is the same that is on the Krome/Kross, then it should not be hard to fix. I would caution you against simply diving into it though, as there may be more circuit boards in the Havian than there are on the Kross/Krome. The internals may look more like what is inside a PA series board, but attached to an 88-key keybed (and speakers).

Removing the bottom plate of the Havian should be fairly simple and it may be a matter of simply cleaning the keybed once the bottom plate comes off. The tops of the keys (the black and white keys) are simply plastic and are removable in groups of octaves (except for the lowest three notes on the 88 key keybed - I believe there is another group for those three). The keys kind of slide out from the weights and hammers that are under the keys. You may need to remove the key-tops in order to really get in and clean the weights and see if there is anything broken in there that is causing the clicking sounds in the videos that you link to.

As I have stated before, I am not aware of your location on the planet, so I am not privy to any repair shops in your area that could work on this for you.

Good Luck.

Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC
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