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D575
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Joined: 05 Aug 2013
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Location: UK (Dorset)
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Joe Gerardi
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 534
Location: Savannah, GA
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 Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:35 am Post subject: |
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I will be buying one of these!
..Joe
_________________
Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II. |
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megamarkd
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Joined: 15 Aug 2017
Posts: 635
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Hmmmm, this does make me curious as well as dubious....
_________________
Stuff I'm using: Umm right now, well there's a Volca Drum, a Micro Freak, an ADX-1, a Pulse, a Blofeld, a UNO Drum, KeyStep/Beatstep Pro/Keystep Pro (one of each), a Circuit, a LiveTrak L-12 and this nonsense: The Brief-case as it was about a bit over a year ago (the the complete ridiculous GAS monster collection here)and here |
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Joe Gerardi
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 534
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:35 am Post subject: |
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You can get all the wavetables in this - and a whole lot more - by buying a Studiologic Sledge, but the 2.3 - and I bet they make the 2.3 version - was a very cool synth. The analog-digital hybrid nature of it gave it a very organic sound, but it could also sound overtly digital, too.
The whole system with the sampling and other piece was cool as hell, too.
..Joe
_________________
Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II. |
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megamarkd
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2017
Posts: 635
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Gerardi wrote: | You can get all the wavetables in this - and a whole lot more - by buying a Studiologic Sledge, but the 2.3 - and I bet they make the 2.3 version - was a very cool synth. The analog-digital hybrid nature of it gave it a very organic sound, but it could also sound overtly digital, too.
The whole system with the sampling and other piece was cool as hell, too.
..Joe |
Yes I agree, but I am dubious they will get the software part of it all correct. There is a particular way that the samples/wavetables were dealt with that was a major factor in the sound, as well as the analogue processing. I don't know if they can get that right. I know the Waldorf PPG Wave 2.x/3 softsynths are highly regarded for their authenticity but they have worked with Wolfgang Palm since the end of the 80's on continuing the PPG wavetable synthesis method. The TD-3 is a very good clone of the 303 but it is buggy as when it comes to the os that runs the sequencing side of it. It's not hard to break it when making settings on the box's front face and need a computer to get it to run correctly again.
If they are successful at it, then they will have a winner for sure and will need to make a Waveterm too. I don't want a computer emulation of one, I want a 13" crt with a big ol' chunky keyboard, handles and a usb flash media floppy drive emulator (a couple of recreations of the old drive mechanics but usb slot/sd card reader under them). As Behringer keep saying about their eurorack modules, it needs to be historically correct!
_________________
Stuff I'm using: Umm right now, well there's a Volca Drum, a Micro Freak, an ADX-1, a Pulse, a Blofeld, a UNO Drum, KeyStep/Beatstep Pro/Keystep Pro (one of each), a Circuit, a LiveTrak L-12 and this nonsense: The Brief-case as it was about a bit over a year ago (the the complete ridiculous GAS monster collection here)and here |
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D575
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Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 1199
Location: UK (Dorset)
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Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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It will be interesting to know more about this synth. I would love to know the amount of polyphony and a few other things about it. Hopefully, Behringer will follow suit and make this one pretty affordable too.
I was able to get the Deepmind-12 a few weeks (maybe a month) ago and have been impressed with it. I am impressed enough to get the desktop module version of it too and poly-chain them together (like I have done with the Minilogue XD and Minilogue XD Module).
I also have a lot of Ensoniq gear in my studio and this is where the BBG offering may really sit well with me.
We will see...
Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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Joe Gerardi
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 534
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Actually, I have to revise my first post: I will be buying one of these if it has a 5 octave keyboard.
I don't play no kiddie-sized, gelded 4 octave keyboards. I can play with both hands, and I needs 5 octave to have the space for longer arpeggios.
..Joe
_________________
Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II. |
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Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Gerardi wrote: | Actually, I have to revise my first post: I will be buying one of these if it has a 5 octave keyboard.
I don't play no kiddie-sized, gelded 4 octave keyboards. I can play with both hands, and I needs 5 octave to have the space for longer arpeggios.
..Joe |
I am not totally for or against 49-key keybeds. I have had keyboards in the past with 49-keys and the Deep,mind-12 I have now has 49. The Minilogue XD only has 37. For pads and other types of sounds, I do not feel that the smaller keyboards are that much of a limitation, especially when considering the convenient placement of the octave switches/buttons on the boards. If I am to use these boards as pads machines, I would probably just MIDI them to another larger keyboard anyway.
Are they a bit inconvenient? Sure, especially with doing extended glissandos and arp runs. Are they unusable? No... With that said, I DO prefer at least 61-keys because I am first, a piano player.
If you need extra keys for longer arp runs, wouldn't it be a good thing to simply have an 88-key? I find that even 61-keys don't really help all that much and I have moved to an 88-key for those types of runs...
Additionally, keep in mind that many of our favorite synths (Minimoog, etc..) has smaller length keybeds as well, and we did fine with them.
Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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Koekepan
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Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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I already have keyboards.
Just give me a desktop/rackmount version. MIDI over USB would be a fine option, for best latency handling. |
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megamarkd
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2017
Posts: 635
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Koekepan wrote: | I already have keyboards.
Just give me a desktop/rackmount version. MIDI over USB would be a fine option, for best latency handling. |
Yeah, I agree. But I prefer old DIN5 MIDI to USB.
Harry, the original Wave 2.x had 8 voice polyphony.
Joe, check D575's link for a look at what the BBG is gonna look like with a person in pic for scale.
D575 thank you for the link, it has made me feel a lot better about this clone being done the right way. It's good to see Hermann's getting involved, I have seen him kicking around in Waldorf related things for two decades....
_________________
Stuff I'm using: Umm right now, well there's a Volca Drum, a Micro Freak, an ADX-1, a Pulse, a Blofeld, a UNO Drum, KeyStep/Beatstep Pro/Keystep Pro (one of each), a Circuit, a LiveTrak L-12 and this nonsense: The Brief-case as it was about a bit over a year ago (the the complete ridiculous GAS monster collection here)and here |
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Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| megamarkd wrote: | | Koekepan wrote: | I already have keyboards.
Just give me a desktop/rackmount version. MIDI over USB would be a fine option, for best latency handling. |
Yeah, I agree. But I prefer old DIN5 MIDI to USB.
Harry, the original Wave 2.x had 8 voice polyphony.
Joe, check D575's link for a look at what the BBG is gonna look like with a person in pic for scale.
D575 thank you for the link, it has made me feel a lot better about this clone being done the right way. It's good to see Hermann's getting involved, I have seen him kicking around in Waldorf related things for two decades.... |
I remember the originals  Very cool machines.
I was just thinking that not only has Behringer cloned so many different synths from back in the day, they have improved upon many of the features and even added a few of their own. I would think that polyphony could be increased over the original versions.
It is not a huge problem if their version of the PPG stuff carries the same polyphony, but having more would be better
I know that this thread is about the PPG clone, but if we look at the Deepmind-12 for a bit to explain my point... it has 12-voices of polyphony in single-voice mode. To get a really good sounding Saw sound, you really need to go into a Poly-3 or Poly-4 routing, lowering the amount of available polyphony to around 3/4 voices. This can severely limit the depth of chords that we can play before running out of notes. With that being said, a true layering keyboard patch could really take multiple Deepmind-12 synths to accomplish.
I have been able to program some great pad sounds that use just 1 voice (but do use both oscillators) and the EFX options on my Deepmind-12. I am considering buying at least 1 Deepmind-12 module to add to my existing DM-12 keyboarded version. That way, I can have the polyphony I need for more extended runs and not run out of notes
I am interested in the PPG clone, especially since I have a lot of Ensoniq stuff in my studio and their wavetable stuff is similar. I have a pair of VFX synths from Ensoniq in my studio (as well as other Ensoniq stuff) and programming those things can get very deep and I can easily run out of notes on those too (the VFX can have up to 6 sounds per patch/sound) but the depth is amazing.
Seeing what Behringer can do to clone the PPG, and maybe even exceed some of the features, is going to be neat to see.
Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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megamarkd
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2017
Posts: 635
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Musicwithharry wrote: | | megamarkd wrote: | | Koekepan wrote: | I already have keyboards.
Just give me a desktop/rackmount version. MIDI over USB would be a fine option, for best latency handling. |
Yeah, I agree. But I prefer old DIN5 MIDI to USB.
Harry, the original Wave 2.x had 8 voice polyphony.
Joe, check D575's link for a look at what the BBG is gonna look like with a person in pic for scale.
D575 thank you for the link, it has made me feel a lot better about this clone being done the right way. It's good to see Hermann's getting involved, I have seen him kicking around in Waldorf related things for two decades.... |
I remember the originals Very cool machines.
I was just thinking that not only has Behringer cloned so many different synths from back in the day, they have improved upon many of the features and even added a few of their own. I would think that polyphony could be increased over the original versions.
It is not a huge problem if their version of the PPG stuff carries the same polyphony, but having more would be better
I know that this thread is about the PPG clone, but if we look at the Deepmind-12 for a bit to explain my point... it has 12-voices of polyphony in single-voice mode. To get a really good sounding Saw sound, you really need to go into a Poly-3 or Poly-4 routing, lowering the amount of available polyphony to around 3/4 voices. This can severely limit the depth of chords that we can play before running out of notes. With that being said, a true layering keyboard patch could really take multiple Deepmind-12 synths to accomplish.
I have been able to program some great pad sounds that use just 1 voice (but do use both oscillators) and the EFX options on my Deepmind-12. I am considering buying at least 1 Deepmind-12 module to add to my existing DM-12 keyboarded version. That way, I can have the polyphony I need for more extended runs and not run out of notes
I am interested in the PPG clone, especially since I have a lot of Ensoniq stuff in my studio and their wavetable stuff is similar. I have a pair of VFX synths from Ensoniq in my studio (as well as other Ensoniq stuff) and programming those things can get very deep and I can easily run out of notes on those too (the VFX can have up to 6 sounds per patch/sound) but the depth is amazing.
Seeing what Behringer can do to clone the PPG, and maybe even exceed some of the features, is going to be neat to see.
Grace,
Harry |
I typed out a big long reply (as I do  ) to you yesterday, Harry, but forgot to hit post and then closed the browser! 
Oh well. Here's the basic gist of it:
I thought you meant the original (and was surprised you didn't know!). I too think that 8 voices is not enough. I would be great if they did a 16 voice machine, even if it is a 15kg monster due to all the analogues in it.
Seeing as the oscillators are digital, I'd hope that increased oscillators assigned to a patch won't reduce the polyphony. It's not like they are a physical component of the synth. Microprocessors are very powerful these days and ram is cheap, so that shouldn't hold back full spec patches from being full polyphony.
_________________
Stuff I'm using: Umm right now, well there's a Volca Drum, a Micro Freak, an ADX-1, a Pulse, a Blofeld, a UNO Drum, KeyStep/Beatstep Pro/Keystep Pro (one of each), a Circuit, a LiveTrak L-12 and this nonsense: The Brief-case as it was about a bit over a year ago (the the complete ridiculous GAS monster collection here)and here |
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