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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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 Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| karmathanever wrote: | Hi all
THANKS so much for all this information - will investigate these options now.
I am mostly wanting to produce some good recordings initially for the band, friends and family - maybe later some demos.
Someone asked how I connect:-
I have guitar, PA4X and vocals connected to my Roland HS5 hub (individual inputs) - the HS5 connects directly to my Mac (USB) and I record directly into Logic (multitrack)
Thanks again
Pete  |
Hi Pete, if you clarify your budget , that might narrow the many choices.
In general, the minimum for ' decent' is around $500.
Its easy to spend $1000 on monitors and get a good result.
A sub is very expensive. If you consider your listening audience, relying on a sub will skew your audience.
I think what happens is that the band, the musician wants to hear top notch quality.
But when you get right down to it, the audience is mostly listening on iPhones, iPads, basic PC monitors. Not audiophile stuff, not even close. Given this reality,
I would not be inclined to spend a huge amount [ $2000 ?] . If you agree
with this practicality, $500/$600 will get the job done.
The real battle on mixing, is getting the levels of various linstruments to be in balance.
Or you and band have to be in agreement of what instruments to over amplify in a mix. To get at mix you and band like, is more about priorities on loudness.
$600 speakers will support getting this job done. $2000 monitors are not going
improve that result IMO.
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Aripearlmusic
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Jun 2018
Posts: 342
Location: BROOKLYN NY
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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ive been using KRK Rokit 5 G3's for a few years and im very happy with them. very flat response and quite loud. i recently got Adam A7x's and i use them for the DAW while the rokit G3s are used for the 4x.
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arjen_1
Platinum Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Posts: 647
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
My main monitors are the KRK RP6's G3. I really can recommend them for mastering in medium sized studio's and general listening. Maybe sometimes a little bit too much bass but you'll be fine.
A few months ago I ordered the Korg Paas, exclusively for playing the PA4x. I was really dissapointed about the sound quality and sold it almost immediately. My loss.
Meanwhile I read a lot of raving reviews about the JBL 104's. Really inexpensive but somehow intriguing. So I ordered a pair and did some tests without any expectations. I was totally surprised; the stereo imaging and sound quality of these little monitors is just mind blowing. For mastering in small rooms and also as a dedicated PA4x monitoring system (@night without waking up the neighbours) it is...well...just perfect. Highly recommended! Give the 104's a try, you won't be dissapointed.
Regards,
Arjen
Last edited by arjen_1 on Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:35 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Asena
Approved Merchant
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 2549
Location: Sweden/Malmoe
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:45 am Post subject: |
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KALI audio is one of the AMAZING sounding monitors! Price is superb for what it delivers.
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Korghelper
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 584
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Budget, budget, budget...
For starters, killer monitors in a terrible room is money down the toilet. How much can you afford to treat your mixing/mastering room? How much of that is going to be subtracted from the monitor budget? |
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karmathanever
Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10398
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Guys!!!!!
Thanks again for supplying all your recommendations - I am going through these now...
One issue I may have is availability of your recommendations in Australia but, that being said, my budget was not mentioned as I wanted to investigate first.
Also, the Oz$ is about US$0.65 - I need to buy locally if possible to avoid shipping and import duties etc....
Although I am performing a fair bit, I am not playing keyboards so I would not be thinking of needing monitors for live - if I do end up performing more with keys in the future, I'll be considering suitable performance gear.
If I find that I really can't avoid spending huge $$ then I may look at an alternative approach to my mastering (my friend has a fully equipped studio etc..)
...but ideally I would prefer to work at home if possible.
You have all given me lots to investigate and I am very grateful.
Take care
Pete
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taichi
Senior Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2017
Posts: 288
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Pete
I purchased Adam A7X studio monitors some time back and very pleased with them. Excellent. But then I started to do everything BACKWARDS. Set the speakers up, equilateral triangle , 1/3 distance into the room etc.
In hindsight I should have looked at the acoustics of the room first. Hard surfaces, plaster walls and ceilings, windows, doors, hard furniture. Particularly in the corners of the room and set about hanging panels on the walls and ceiling.
Some speakers (like my Pa1000) have ports at the back so need to be treated differently especially near corners of room. Don’t forget the floor, thick carpets are better than laminated hard floors. Heavy curtains can cover windows and walls.
Yes I did things backwards and maybe could have had smaller speakers. Get the room acoustically good first and try the speakers that you already have. Play around with EQ settings only after you are happy with the acoustics of your room.
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Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| karmathanever wrote: | Guys!!!!!
Thanks again for supplying all your recommendations - I am going through these now...
One issue I may have is availability of your recommendations in Australia but, that being said, my budget was not mentioned as I wanted to investigate first.
Also, the Oz$ is about US$0.65 - I need to buy locally if possible to avoid shipping and import duties etc....
Although I am performing a fair bit, I am not playing keyboards so I would not be thinking of needing monitors for live - if I do end up performing more with keys in the future, I'll be considering suitable performance gear.
If I find that I really can't avoid spending huge $$ then I may look at an alternative approach to my mastering (my friend has a fully equipped studio etc..)
...but ideally I would prefer to work at home if possible.
You have all given me lots to investigate and I am very grateful.
Take care
Pete |
Glad all of the information is of some use to you.
I have found that my JBL monitors (LSR305) are not fatiguing to listen to for long periods. I could say the same about the Presonus Eris 3.5 monitors, but I find that I turn up more with those than the JBL monitors. The JBL monitors are enjoyable to listen to. The Adam monitors people speak of are very good too, but may be a bit pricey. The Kali audio monitors offer possibly the best 'bang for the buck' but I am not sure of their availability in your country.
My comment in my earlier post may have strayed a bit from your initial query, but I feel it was valid because the more you can send to your recording software to mix, the better your mix will be. This will be evident in the monitors as well.
Personally, I love a very quiet room to mix in. My rooms have always been sound-isolated the best I could, including using bass traps in the corners to absorb as much as I can. I actually prefer anechoic rooms, myself. The more sound-proofed and quiet a room is for me, the better. I am not interested in ambient recordings per se, as a very quiet room can be a great way to find noisy signal paths and noisy effects.
Another thing to consider, and it was not talked about this thread yet, was the use of professional headphones. They can work wonders when you are mixing a track, when they are being used correctly. There are some potential 'drawbacks', but I have been successful using professional cans to listen on . I have a pair of the KRK KNS6400 cans that I have used for many years and they sound great. I also have a pair of Status Audio CB-1 cans that also sound great (but also have a bit more bass than the KRK cans). With headphones, you can get very detailed in where you want things in the stereo field, and that usually transfers well to a set of monitors.
Be careful when using headphones as if they are too loud, your ears will get fatigued much easier than with monitor speakers - the sound is closer to your ears with headphones on. I have released a number of albums that were mixed on headphones and I like the sound that I was able to achieve. I also referenced them on the Alesis 320USB monitors (before I got my JBL monitors).
Not to 'read my resume' and say that my opinions are worth more than others, but I have been recording for about 30 years now and through training (I went to school for it) and trial and error, have found things that really work for me in ALL of the mixes I have for myself and others. Since you are using line-level gear for much of the soundbed, getting good results is a bit easier (provided they are EQ'd the right way and do not overpower the mic'ed tracks).
You have to be careful when using limiting/compression on the final mix because of vocals. Since the vocals are not line-level, they can overpower the final mix and cause the backing tracks to seem to fade away a bit. It is a common thing to battle and fairly easy to fix. Having electronic drums (in your case, the drum tracks on the keyboards) can also have this problem in more dense passages. This is why I recommend sending your drum tracks to different recording tracks. This will help mitigate the problem. The same applies for EFX on the drums. Reverb might sound great when the tracks are soloed, but then sound dry and dull when in a mix. This too can be mitigated by putting them on their own recorded tracks.
Grace,
Harry
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Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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mordechai
Joined: 03 May 2020
Posts: 25
Location: states
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:36 am Post subject: |
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i have recently upgraded to yamaha hs 7 from and an old pair of midiman (maudio ) sp 5b which i got like 20 years ago and was the 1st set of monitors they ever put out .
i find that the yamahas are great for mixing, they bring out all the crud in my music . they are really very honest and they dont have a hyped high end or sweetspot . they also respond very quickly to transients. this being the case they are an excellent tool but they are not fun to listen too . but thats fine because they arent meant to be
NOTE : they have rear bass ports and therefor the manual recommends you place them at least 4 feet from the wall behind them!
if you dont have 4 feet you can attenuate the bass response of the monitor by 2db using a switch on the speaker. i have mine about 2 feet from the wall and the bass builds fast unless i keep the volume down. but i am still getting much better mixes since i got them.
there is also a switch to roll off 2db off the high end if you are in a smaller room where smaller sized high freq sound waves tend to stand and become exaggerated. i found this particular switch very helpful in my room coupled with 3 inch acoustic foam panels from www.foambymail.com and some carpet
while i am at it, i saw someone mentioned genelec.
i heard genelc monitors at a music store. they sound AMAZING compared to all the monitors mentioned here although they are not in my budget. that being said i dont believe they will represent what the avg person will be hearing when they listen to your music they are way beyond typical speaker
s for me they would be luxury items
last but not least... i NEVER consider a mix done before i listened in my car.
happy mixing!!!!
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bensel46
Full Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2018
Posts: 155
Location: Leiden, The Netherlands
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Korghelper
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 584
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Mastering somewhere away from the room you mixed in is always a good thing (if it’s a better room!) especially if it puts a fresh set of ears on the project.
By the time the mastering rolls round, the mix engineer tends to go a little ear blind to things he has heard over and over... |
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Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| mordechai wrote: | i have recently upgraded to yamaha hs 7 from and an old pair of midiman (maudio ) sp 5b which i got like 20 years ago and was the 1st set of monitors they ever put out .
i find that the yamahas are great for mixing, they bring out all the crud in my music . they are really very honest and they dont have a hyped high end or sweetspot . they also respond very quickly to transients. this being the case they are an excellent tool but they are not fun to listen too . but thats fine because they arent meant to be
NOTE : they have rear bass ports and therefor the manual recommends you place them at least 4 feet from the wall behind them!
if you dont have 4 feet you can attenuate the bass response of the monitor by 2db using a switch on the speaker. i have mine about 2 feet from the wall and the bass builds fast unless i keep the volume down. but i am still getting much better mixes since i got them.
there is also a switch to roll off 2db off the high end if you are in a smaller room where smaller sized high freq sound waves tend to stand and become exaggerated. i found this particular switch very helpful in my room coupled with 3 inch acoustic foam panels from www.foambymail.com and some carpet
while i am at it, i saw someone mentioned genelec.
i heard genelc monitors at a music store. they sound AMAZING compared to all the monitors mentioned here although they are not in my budget. that being said i dont believe they will represent what the avg person will be hearing when they listen to your music they are way beyond typical speaker
s for me they would be luxury items
last but not least... i NEVER consider a mix done before i listened in my car.
happy mixing!!!! |
I used to use the NS10 monitors from Yamaha back in the day. They were a bit harsh on the high end and I adopted the old 'paper over the tweeters' trick that so many others did. They sounded very good.
Genelec are great monitors, but yes, out of many peoples' price range. The same could be said about the Focal monitors and many others.
The beauty of the more expensive monitors is that they make the lower priced ones get better
I agree about listening in the car as well. I usually compare the mix in my cars, as well as on a boombox and the iPhone to make sure that it sounds pretty good there too. If the mix sounds equally good on the different music devices, I usually move to mastering at that point.
Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Korghelper wrote: | Mastering somewhere away from the room you mixed in is always a good thing (if it’s a better room!) especially if it puts a fresh set of ears on the project.
By the time the mastering rolls round, the mix engineer tends to go a little ear blind to things he has heard over and over... |
There is a lot of truth in your statement. That is why companies have separate 'mastering houses' and such.
For us that mix from smaller areas (I do not have my multi-room recording facility anymore), usually waiting a day or two will help the ears get back to normal and provide a fresh perspective when mastering.
There is different software out there that also provides automated mastering and multi-band limiting for masters. I find them helpful, sometimes. There was one in particular that I did two albums with a few years ago, but I cannot remember the name of it now. When I find it, I will post it here for reference. I liked how it made the mixes sound and was well beyond the 'compress the final mix and add EQ' type style
Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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steve350
Full Member
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 236
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I purchased a pair of KRK Rokit 8's. I put a couple of black metal grills on the front of the speakers. I purchased and installed pole mounts for the bottom of the speakers. Now I can use them on stands and move them around without putting a hole in the speaker material. They have plenty of power and sound great. |
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mordechai
Joined: 03 May 2020
Posts: 25
Location: states
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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i have heard the krk monitors are popular with edm producers. i heard a pir once and was not impressed with the low end on them but it could have been the room they were in
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