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Issue with chord recognition ..

 
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denistu007



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 12:32 am    Post subject: Issue with chord recognition .. Reply with quote

Hi,

I am having issues with several user styles which I am using on my Pa4x. It seems that the accompaniment tracks do not follow properly chords that I am triggering with my left hand.

For example, in some cases a guitar only recognizes major or minor chords while nothing happens if I play Maj7 or any other chord.

I assume there is a setting in a style that enables patterns to follow chords properly.

This is the case only with some styles, while others are working fine so I assume it's not about the global setting on the board.

Does anybody know how I can fix this?

Here is some additional info ..
Tracks that are not working properly have 3 chord variations (cv-1, cv-2, cv-2) which are be assigned to different chord types. First I though that the problem was with the chord variations but then I noticed that some other styles that I am using are having only one chord variations per a track, and the chord are changing perfectly fine.

I assume that the chord variations are there only if you want to play a different pattern on a specific chord, but if only one variation is present, the pattern will stay the same but still follow the chords as triggered by left hand.

I would appreciate if someone could help me out. I've spend quite few hours trying to fix this by haven't been able to figure out what wrong.

Thank you,
Denis
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karmathanever
Platinum Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10393

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This will possibly relate to the way the tracks were recorded - very basically, the rule-of-thumb was to always record the style in a major-7th key (e.g. CM7) and then the chords other than majors and minors will be better recognised.
I would guess that your user styles may not have been recorded in this way.

Chord types for CVs will still not work well if the original style recording was "too basic". CVs are there for you to vary the actual playing for specific chord types.

There may be a different reason but this is definitely one to check.

Cheers

Pete Very Happy
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denistu007



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Pete,

I am starting to thing the same way. Spent quite a few hours comparing parameters between "good" and "bad" styles and still nothing.

It seems that neither one of the three chord variations change based on my playing. Basically, cv1 plays only major, cv2 plays only minor, and cv3 only 7th chord and that's it. All other chords have to be "assigned" to one of these in the chord recognition table.

I file like I am playing in single-finger mode on a casio. Smile

Thanks for your response!

Denis
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karmathanever
Platinum Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10393

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dennis

Sorry but this sounds very much like these styles have been created by an inexperienced person (no disrespect intended here).
If you are learning this yourself, it might help to study some of the factory styles and the latest User Manual.

When creating a style, the concept of creating more than one CV is when you actually want something slightly different to play when the CV's assigned chords are played (e.g. you might want the bass to play a different run when a major-7th chord is played). If on the other hand, you are happy to have the ACCs, Bass, Perc & drums to do the same for all chords, then you only need one CV - BUT don't just record it as a major key loop else it will not work satisfactorily.

When recording the CVs you must take this into account.

E.g. if you just record everything in a Cmaj key then you will not hear many chords like seventh, minor-7th, major-7th, 9th etc.... correctly.

Yes, I guess it WOULD sound like a cheap arranger (although Casio/Roland/Korg's single finger mode definitely plays minors, 7ths, minor-7ths correctly)

Cheers

Pete Very Happy
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music Very Happy
------------------------------------------------------------------
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denistu007



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pete,

Actually the set was made by a quite reputable company making professional styles and samples for arranger keyboards and that's why I was surprised when experienced these issues.

Knowing that the original set was made primarily for Roland of Yamaha flagship arrangers, I am thinking that the set was maybe converted to Korg by one of those conversion application and that's where the things ended wrong.

There is also another possibility ..
When looking at the guitar pattern in the "edit event" mode, it seems that a singe note in the pattern is producing a guitar chord, so I guess the "guitar mode" was used when creating the pattern.
Now the questions is how this affects chord changes during live playing. Maybe that's why the chord variations had to be "hard coded", instead of making them generic enough so the arranger can adjust them in real time?

Thanks,
Denis
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karmathanever
Platinum Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10393

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Denis

Roland/Yamaha style structures are very very different to Korg - this is why professionally developed styles for the Korg PA series end up being far more authentic and superior to the competition.
There have been punters out there advertising lots and lots of styles covering many arrangers for years - in my experience, most of these are overly basic and unauthentic and a waste of money.
Back in the "old days" there was a CD comprising 1000 styles for the Korg i-series (e-bay) called USB (Universal Style Base) - I bought it - was close to useless.

Sounds like this company you mention clearly did not understand the Korg style structure and yes, probably just used some conversation tool.
If these styles do not work properly on the PA4X you should get a refund - to advertise as PA4X styles is false advertising.

Sorry you experienced this - you should not be having to fix up a purchased set of styles!!!

Take care

Pete Very Happy
_________________
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------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music Very Happy
------------------------------------------------------------------
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