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Musicwithharry Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 694 Location: Anamosa, IA
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:24 pm Post subject: Oscillator Sync on Pa700? |
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Good Afternoon
I tried searching the Forum and had no luck...
Is there a way to to a Hard Sync sound on the PA700?
Specifically, I joined a group who wants to do "Let's Go" from The Cars. It has the signature Hard Oscillator Sync sound that we all know.
I was playing around on the PA700 and cannot find where I can sync up the two Osc's together.
Can anyone help me?
I also have an M50 and a Kross 1, but I would like to try to get it on the PA700 first before tackling the other two synths in search of the sound, as the PA700 is my main instrument with all I do.
Grace,
Harry _________________ Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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Biggles Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017 Posts: 1004
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting question, wish I knew the answer.
I did find an article that explains a hard sync for those of you who like me did not fully know what Harry was on about
Google hard sync and select the harmonycentral answer, alas if I copy and paste the link it does not work
With the sampling capabilities of the PA then I wonder if this is one way if achieving the desired effects.
The Korg Webinar 9th Oct 17:00 BST is all about sampling.
I have asked the question so hopefully will have the answer direct from Korg staffers tomorrow night. _________________ Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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siebenhirter Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011 Posts: 1825
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Oscillator Sync on Pa700? |
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Musicwithharry wrote: | .. Hard Sync sound on the PA700 .. |
The oscillators of the Pa keyboards do not generate sync references in order to control a second oscillator. _________________ kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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Musicwithharry Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 694 Location: Anamosa, IA
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Oscillator Sync on Pa700? |
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I played around with my PA700 for a number of hours yesterday, trying to get different variations of a Hard Sync-like sound and came up empty for many different reasons:
1. I cannot find out where in the system to sync Osc 1 to Osc 2. I cannot find it (maybe someone else knows). When I want to use Osc 1 as the AMS source for Osc 2, that option is greyed out in the menu.
2. I cannot seem to get the LFO to trigger based on #1 above. I cannot get the sweep that I am looking for.
3. The Saw waves are fine, even the pulse waves .02% are fine, but they lack any real punch in the bass when trying to make it stand out. Even when I try to adjust the EQ to bump up the low end, it ends up being 'boomy' and not the desired sound.
4. I tried to add Resonance and adjust the Filter to make an emulation, but the filter never seemed to close just right and so it did not sound truly like a Hard Sync type sound.
5. When I add EFX, including the Insert EFX, the sound is not quite right and lack presence.
5a. I tried putting the 2-voice Resonator and Talking Modulator effects in place (one of them allows for formant voicing) and I could not get either to really work well. I ended up with A LOT of aliasing-type artifacts, probably because of the extra resonance available in the effect itself.
5b. I also tried to mess around with the Ring Modulator and did not get good results.
5c. Having to add Chorus to it as well to add depth, made me run out of EFX slots for a Reverb and I could not get it to sound right.
5d. I tried with many different starter programs already in the Factory/Legacy/XG/GM blocks and would change the sample(s) being used, and could not get the desired effect.
5e. I even tried to create the sound using an initialized patch and could not get anything that sounded quite right.
5f. I tried using different combinations of Oscillators (2 and 3 oscillators), and could not get the sound right.
Unfortunately, that sound is unique and definitely recognizable and so anything that is not THAT sound will not work. I guess that I am going to need to get into my M50 or the Kross and see if I can do it there. I would not be happy with having to tell the band that I cannot emulate that sound from my existing arsenal of boards and we have to put the song on hold. Some sounds need to be as close to the original as possible or they sound weird and the band (and me, as a keyboardist) can lose our credibility...
I have a list of synths that I am going to get, hopefully in January, and one of them is the Behringer Deepmind-12. That can do Oscillator sync and so it will be easy to get the sound made then...who knows, there might even be a Hard Sync program already in the factory sounds there...
Thank you for the replies
Grace,
Harry _________________ Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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Biggles Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017 Posts: 1004
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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As I stated I asked the question of the Korg guys and they are going to work at it to see what they can do and intend to have one of the Webinars include their results before Christmas. _________________ Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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Musicwithharry Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 694 Location: Anamosa, IA
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Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:13 am Post subject: |
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Biggles wrote: | As I stated I asked the question of the Korg guys and they are going to work at it to see what they can do and intend to have one of the Webinars include their results before Christmas. |
Biggles - Thank you I had read your message earlier and maybe the guys at Korg can find a workaround for emulating Hard Sync. It would be neat to see our PA series do some of these kinds of things. Minimally, if people were to play the MIDI file from their PA series, then at least they would be able to get the right sound.
If I play the MIDI file version of the song, Let's Go, I hear strings doing the part of the Hard Sync....not quite the same.
I will sojourn on with my M50 and get a sound from that too (hopefully). There are some sounds in the sound listing that has something with 'sync' in the name, so it is promising.
Since I will be using the M50 along with the PA700 on stage in the band, at least I I have a few more options rather than letting one board do it alone. But, if I ever wanted to use the MIDI file, then I know I could look locally on the PA700 for the internal sound
Thank you again.
Grace,
Harry _________________ Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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Biggles Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017 Posts: 1004
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Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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If a WAV sample of the Hard Synth tone in question can be obtained then that can be used to creat a new Sound on the Pa.
The Korg staff guys showed how to do precisely that on a 4x using a batch of samples they had of a Duduk _________________ Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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Musicwithharry Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 694 Location: Anamosa, IA
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Biggles wrote: | If a WAV sample of the Hard Synth tone in question can be obtained then that can be used to creat a new Sound on the Pa.
The Korg staff guys showed how to do precisely that on a 4x using a batch of samples they had of a Duduk |
It might be interesting to see how it may sound. I am not sure how well that would work though, as the sync is really when one oscillator is feeding the other and according to my research, the PA series cannot do that. That is what makes the sound unique.
As I stated before, I also have an M50 synth (as well as the others in my signature), and there are a few sounds that sound 'synchy' but not quite the same as the original. This is because of the fact that one oscillator needs to feed the other.
It will be neat to see how the the attempt will sound. If it is believable, then I may need to clear a small spot of memory in the RAM on my PA700 to allocate for those samples. My RAM is full now because of Reuben's Yamaha C5 piano sample
Grace,
Harry _________________ Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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Biggles Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017 Posts: 1004
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Harry
I do not see how either but it was worth asking the question if Luke and Adam at Korg UK.
That said I have confidence that they will produce a very passable version. _________________ Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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Biggles Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017 Posts: 1004
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Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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A response from Luke at Korg UK and the Hard Synth sound.
He cannot find a way of producing the sound on a Pa.
That said the existing Brian Sync sound should be a passable alternative.
Luke added that they would carry over this requirement to the Synth Show which starts in January.
Hope this helps. _________________ Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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Musicwithharry Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 694 Location: Anamosa, IA
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Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Biggles wrote: | A response from Luke at Korg UK and the Hard Synth sound.
He cannot find a way of producing the sound on a Pa.
That said the existing Brian Sync sound should be a passable alternative.
Luke added that they would carry over this requirement to the Synth Show which starts in January.
Hope this helps. |
Thank you
I am using my M50 for the sync sound in a sound called Mega Sync Lead.
I also have one I made on the PA700 called Sync Reso that utilizes the Talking Modulator as an Insert effect. They are passable for now.
I am planning on getting an analog unit that does Osc sync in the future so it will be remedied then.
I will also await any further developments from Korg, as that could be a pretty important sound to other people as well.
Grace,
Harry _________________ Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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Biggles Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017 Posts: 1004
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Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Harry.
I will have to have a play around with my 700 to replicate it when I can find it. _________________ Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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