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Kronos volume output low

 
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Badplaya



Joined: 28 Dec 2017
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject: Kronos volume output low Reply with quote

Does anyone else find it takes a lot of volume and gain on a mixer to achieve a good volume level? I use multiple patches for a performance so volume leveling is always a pain but my hammond in comparison to the kronos takes less than 1/4 volume turn and minimal gain, same with Yamaha, but kronos volume is nearly max as is mixer gain. All patches are leveled to my lowest sound being as high as possible. The real problem is sound guy links all boards together for mix so korg volume in ears is really low compared to the other boards. Not fun playing live with band. Any suggestions would be awesome!!! Thank you!!!
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Badplaya



Joined: 28 Dec 2017
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry... I should note I run stereo out to mixer and balanced out from mixer to FOH.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this sounds familiar with gigging Kronos keyboardists.

I am fairly sure Kronos volume is not ' 1 size fits all '. Each engine might need its own volume adjustment for outside gigs.

I think the answer is use of FX to get more of the punch you are looking for.
Use compression, stereo limiter, etc.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
this sounds familiar with gigging Kronos keyboardists.

I am fairly sure Kronos volume is not ' 1 size fits all '. Each engine might need its own volume adjustment for outside gigs.

Plus using stereo might affect the signal path. Some players find a way to run in mono.

I think another answer is use of FX to get more of the punch you are looking for.
Use compression, stereo limiter, etc.

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Badplaya



Joined: 28 Dec 2017
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you GregC! Sound guy found good volume somehow for this show. Not shure how he did it but for the future I'll try some fx and see what that does!
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davie159



Joined: 25 Oct 2010
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: Output levels Reply with quote

Hi guys. Interesting reading your comments

I use nord stage 3 and a Kronos LS. Both go to desk via DI boxes and I get an auxiliary back which I run into a QSC K12.for stage monitor. Occasionally I use IEM. The guys use a behringer X Air desk and I use the app for my own monitor mix. Now hereís the problem I have.

My monitor levels for the NS3 are where I would expect them to be and the signal on my mix is fine. On the Kronos, I have to have the monitor level basically at 100% and even then the level is a struggle. At 100% Iíd expect the signal to peak considerably but itís not the case. Iíve spent hours working on individual patches and getting levels correct between the NS3 and the Kronos. What goes out front is fine itís just the monitoring thatís the issue.

If you can shed any light, thanks and I hope what Iíve written makes sense.
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Falcon2e
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Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I might be the exception, although I route my signal out a little different than described above. First of all Iím not using stereo for live shows. A Nord 2 complements the Kronos. Both line outs go directly to an EV powered speaker, rated at 1500 watts peak. Thatís a lot of power, but I have old ears. From the EV balanced line output I send the signal directly to the sound guy. I donít have any issues with the Kronosí volume.

One other thought....you might have the sound tech experiment with the gain adjustment. Too much will cause the signal to be distorted.
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psionic311
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you use the Set List to organize your songs?
If so, on the Edit tab, you can adjust the slot Volume, and save it.

Do you keep your Kronos volume knob at noon, or 3'oclock?
I wouldn't set it at max volume, just to leave some headroom.
Live on stage, you might need to turn it up louder.
Some sound guys do NOT like this. They prefer "set and forget".
If you're running your own sound, and you're not near the FOH desk,
you might have little choice but to turn up your volume knob when needed.

You should volume match your Kronos programs to each other and to the Nord.
Try to do this loudly. In other words, crank up the volume on your PA, then balance.
Matching levels at low volume doesn't scale up the same at loud stage volumes.
A good practice is to use TFX2 the same on all your programs / combis.
Put a Stereo Mastering Limiter there, using preset Mix Max (upper right dropdown).
optional: A Stereo Multiband Compressor on TFX1 can also balance the volumes.
Use the Mastering Limiter last in the chain (TFX2).

The Nord sounds are designed to cut through.
And you have fewer of them. It's easy to balance a piano once.
The Kronos has such a variety of sounds, and it's more high fidelity.
Your Kronos can change volume drastically between combis.
Use the above Set List volume and TFX tips, as well as combi sliders.

But really, it's the job of the sound guy to get your gain staging correct.
Your sound guy may need to boost the channel preamp gain for the Kronos.
Alternatively, you can boost the mid highs on your monitor mix for the Kronos.


The XR18 is very flexible.
You should not be struggling to hear your Kronos over the Nord.
The Kronos can get WAY louder than the Nord ever can.
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LZ
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Joined: 02 May 2007
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Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some engines are quieter than others. For instance, you can get blazingly loud patches out of the AL-1 engine, while HD-1 sometimes seems really quiet. Note that often there are places within the patch where you can bump up the volume. Many of the presets are set at lower volumes. Example: KRONOS German Grand. Go to the EXi 1 tab, main, under Setup, volume is 101. You can go up to 127 if you need. In Combis, under the EQ/Vector/control tab, Timer EQ, bypass/input trim max volume I see 99. You may find some lower. Every engine has a place to adjust volume - some have multiple places to adjust volume. For your own samples in HD-1, try to use a compressor and normalize your samples for max volume. If you're in setlist mode, make sure the volume for that slot is up. I generally keep my master volume at 12 o'clock which gives me some headroom if I need to bump it up a bit on a softer patch.
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My L/R mains were slowly going out over time. Losing volume and eventually cutting out sporadically bit always coming back after some coaxing. Eventually the sound cut out and did not come back in until the next day when i tried again.

So i would not rule out faulty main-outputs.

I did the global mode switch via Audio page, routing all my main output to individual pair 1/2 or 3/4. And the sound came in louder and clearer than i ever remember.
A few other people have mentioned how much louder the sound is coming out of the individual outs.
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davie159



Joined: 25 Oct 2010
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning and thanks for all your replies.

Iíve spent hours setting levels between NS3 and Kronos and walk away satisfied. The issues I have develop once into the PA and thereafter my monitor signal. Youíve gave me loads of information and Iíll certainly put this tithe test. Just as an aside, I use a mono (left out) for both keys into DI boxes. FOH guy is happy with what he gets from me but itís what I get back.

Onwards and upwards.

Thanks again.
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Rigel
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might have missed if this has been discussed above, but I need to point out that Kronos main outs are balanced, and you'll get a hotter signal out of them if you use TRS jacks.
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voip
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Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Comparing the output levels from spec sheets and user manuals, across a range of keyboards, the Kronos line outs ought to be, at least nominally, at a similar level to other devices:

Audio gear outputs:...Nominal..Max (dBu)
--------------------------------------------------
Akai MPX8/16..................???
Arturia Matrix Brute.........+4
Behringer DeepMind 12..???....+18
EMU Proteus 2000..........+4
Hammond B3MkII............+4
Korg Kronos....................+4.....+16
Korg Krome.....................+4
Korg Kross ....................+10
Korg M3..........................+4.....+16
Korg M50........................???....+16
Korg Triton ..............................+13.5
Kurzweil PC88...............+2.2...+13
Moog One.......................???
Nord Stage 3..................???
Roland V-Synth...............+4
Yamaha...........................???

Actual output level will, as discussed above, depend on the Program or Combi used, the playing style/velocity/sustain, combined with the effects of joystick and other modulation sources. The Kronos has selectable headroom, also. Not sure how this affects output.

It would appear that Nord, and some other notable manufacturers, do not give spec figures for outputs, but looking on other sources of info/discussions, Nord users have sometimes had problems with output levels that are too low, but the general impression is that Nord Line outs are at line level, so should be similar to other instruments.

It might be useful to get a cable tester and signal injector, e.g. Behringer CT100, which will output +4dBu, allowing some sort of comparison of the tester's signal level with the outputs of other audio devices, and might also help to determine if there are any issues with the mixer, cables, and other parts of the audio path to the front of house line ins.

.
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voip
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Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a follow up to my last, having bought one, the CT100 is, indeed a very solid and useful bit of kit for picking up cable interconnections, and intermittencies. It might be worth noting that the +4dBu is not a calibrated "standard" output, but rather it is in the right ball park, and is at a useful, relatively constant level during a given use session, but dependent on battery voltage. As an example, with new AA-cells, the standard +4dBu is 1.23V AC or 3.48V pk-pk. My CT100 outputs 3.32V pk-pk, so easily less than 1dB error.

.
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Sweat
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Output levels Reply with quote

davie159 wrote:
Hi guys. Interesting reading your comments

I use nord stage 3 and a Kronos LS. Both go to desk via DI boxes and I get an auxiliary back which I run into a QSC K12.for stage monitor. Occasionally I use IEM. The guys use a behringer X Air desk and I use the app for my own monitor mix. Now hereís the problem I have.

My monitor levels for the NS3 are where I would expect them to be and the signal on my mix is fine. On the Kronos, I have to have the monitor level basically at 100% and even then the level is a struggle. At 100% Iíd expect the signal to peak considerably but itís not the case. Iíve spent hours working on individual patches and getting levels correct between the NS3 and the Kronos. What goes out front is fine itís just the monitoring thatís the issue.

If you can shed any light, thanks and I hope what Iíve written makes sense.


You are trusting the sound guy to mix and return each instrument at equal or appropriate levels if you are sending them separately to the desk (FOH). Do not do this. Instead, send your own mix of your instruments (stereo or mono) by first using a small personal mixer. Then from the personal mixer main outs to DIs, then to desk.

I prefer using a separate personal mixer, but you could also plug your NS3 into the Kronos and use its built in mixer.

Or do like Falcon2e by connecting instruments to your K12 first. Then send that balanced output directly to sound guy.
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