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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3127
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 Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| xp50player wrote: | | jeremykeys wrote: | So I guess the next big question here will be, what can it do that the Kronos can't?
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1. All 16 stereo parts have USB output (3 stereo returns)
2. Dual analog filter with direct analog out.
3. TR drum machine style programming
4. On-screen drum pattern editor.
5. Tones bring their own effect into the Scene with no fiddling.
6. High resolution controls(1024 steps), with large value displayed
7. Ladder/Ring LEDs, most controls lit.
8. PCM Sync osc type (special PCM Sync waves)
9. Better/sexy editing menus, not from an office copier.
10. New custom semi-weighted keybed and top-notch PHA-50
11. Famous modeled osc and filter types.
12. More effects. All parts have own MFX, + 2 Scene IFX, AFX(analog filter/drive/amp, Scene Reverb & Chorus, and system multiband compressor.
13. Boot time(!!!!)
14. Non-volatile song/pattern storage within the Scene.
15. Remote Apple music products control from display and transport buttons
16. Drag envelopes on screen.
17. Full screen 4-part vector pad with auto-mode and momentary/latch options.
18. Wang stick & wheels. |
Leaves us with another question, what does kronos offer not available on the new Fantom..
1. All 9 engines..
2. Karma
3. Sampler.. and huge room for user samples...
4. Vector stick and touchstrip
5. 16 audio tracks in sequencer
6.
Probably more, but don’t see them right now..
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
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xp50player
Senior Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 374
Location: Nashville
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| Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Leaves us with another question, what does kronos offer not available on the new Fantom..
1. All 9 engines..
2. Karma
3. Sampler.. and huge room for user samples...
4. Vector stick and touchstrip
5. 16 audio tracks in sequencer
6.
Probably more, but don’t see them right now.. |
All effects chainable in a single patch
Setlist
Full linear sequencer
Standalone and VSTi editors(32bit👎)
Wavesequencing
8x2 PCM velocity layers in a patch
IFX presets/user storage
Vocoder
DrumTracks
Bank buttons and number keypad
Large online content shop
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RD-800, Kronos 61, Fantom 6, MODX6, 01/Wfd |
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AtinDallas
Full Member
Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 100
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| No new arranger? Just the workstation? |
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BillTracy
Joined: 18 Oct 2017
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| AtinDallas wrote: | | No new arranger? Just the workstation? |
So far.
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PA900 |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3127
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| AtinDallas wrote: | | No new arranger? Just the workstation? |
Yeah Roland misses out on that...
Would have been so cool if the sequencer supported arranger patters next to normal just linear tracks/loops..
Or kind of like the drum patterns... have aarranger patterns for other tracks..
Ayway, when you look at how popular karma and the yamaha arps are with synth players, this would have been many people’s valhalla..and would have got many pro arranger players on board..
Same for the pads.. allow to add 16 midi multipads to it...
But then on the other hand, the missing super natural acoustic tones make this instrument way less suited as an arrnager then lets say the jupiter 80..
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Bachus wrote: |
There is 1.7 GB of flash ram..
But the sampler is the same as the fa series..
Just meant for one shots and loops (Deejay style)
You can also slice drum loops.
But so far no indication of being able to use user samples to create your own voices.. |
Thanks for the information. Yes, it seems there is really no actual sampler by where you can make samples span across the keyboard to form instruments. It can only do 8 one shot samples at a time too.
That's totally and utterly the most universally stupid thing ever. There's no way on earth I would buy a workstation for 3+ Grand that didn't even have a sampler.
I'm really shocked by that. 
Regards
Sharp. |
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jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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The Fantom X isn't even capable a Fantom G succssor (rather a FA-X, as someone pointed out), having sigificantly less to offer than the Fantom G:
- no audio sequencer
- no instrument sample library import
etc.
In 1988ff it was ok to call a then great ROMpler with a 16track midi sequencer a workstation. Today I what I regard as a workstation would include
- covering all important sound areas. But it seems the Roland X neither offers a B3 engine nor FM nor a really convincing EPiano Package.
- offer Midi AND Audio sampling (live backing track capabilities on board). But the new Roland Fantom only offers Midi Sequencing
- offer the import and creation of instrument sample libraries. The Fantom X has none of that only very limited One Shot capbilities.
Concerning sound offer: I DO like classical Roland sound character (that's why I used a Fantom X and then a Fantom G for a while). But Roland's abililty to offer something new differs a lot between
- offering ever new promising names for every tiny progress in their synth engine coding (Supernatural, ACB, ZEngine etc.)
- but being considerably conservative when it comes to onboard sounds, where custumers regularly meet LOTS of old acquaintances.
For the present Roland X sound offer a Gearlutz poster has been so kind to give us a clue:
-Bank B contains the first 459 patches from the AX-Edge Keytar
-Bank C is the 128 patches from the Integra-7 Synth Legends expansion.
-Bank D contains the 1109 SuperNatural Synth Tones from the Integra-7 / FA synths
-Bank E contains the 896 patches from in the XV-5080.
Don't get me wrong: the XV-5080 sounds were just great in 2000. But if someone wants two decades old clssic Roland sounds, he/she rather buys a used XV or Integra. What do these sounds do in a 2019/2020 "ZEngine" synth without proper sample instruments alternatives on board?
All in all:
the Fantom X may be quite a well done performance synth filled with "best of Roland" sounds. But then it should perhaps cost about half of it's actual price, instead demanding the price of a full workstation concept with endless sound expansion possibilities, all sound areas covered and midi and audio sequencing on board.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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xp50player
Senior Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 374
Location: Nashville
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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It’s early. I have seen rumors of future user multisamples, an EP engine, and Scott Tibbs referenced a non-existent(yet) drawbar organ in one of his demos. This looks like a more software-upgradable DSP platform than past generations.
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RD-800, Kronos 61, Fantom 6, MODX6, 01/Wfd |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3127
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Sharp wrote: | | Bachus wrote: |
There is 1.7 GB of flash ram..
But the sampler is the same as the fa series..
Just meant for one shots and loops (Deejay style)
You can also slice drum loops.
But so far no indication of being able to use user samples to create your own voices.. |
Thanks for the information. Yes, it seems there is really no actual sampler by where you can make samples span across the keyboard to form instruments. It can only do 8 one shot samples at a time too.
That's totally and utterly the most universally stupid thing ever. There's no way on earth I would buy a workstation for 3+ Grand that didn't even have a sampler.
I'm really shocked by that.
Regards
Sharp. |
I think we will see the answer from both Krog an Yamaha at Namm..
The montage 2, will probably be a Montage + a VA engine..
So all our hopes are with Korg..
Despite all the negativity onhere, there are also quite a lot of things Roland did right... the physicall ui is probably how i would have designed it myself.. and the daw/mainstage/vst integration is a huge step forward.. also the one mode for all and everything is great..and as a butwig/live user i must say i like most of their sequencer..
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
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jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| xp50player wrote: | | It’s early. I have seen rumors of future user multisamples, an EP engine, and Scott Tibbs referenced a non-existent(yet) drawbar organ in one of his demos. This looks like a more software-upgradable DSP platform than past generations. |
My trust in plenty of Roland development after original release dates has completely gotten lost with my Fantom G, when I was waiting much too long back then, just to finally get a completely halfbaked synth OS fixed in time. Never happened. This has not become better since, with what other users have experienced in the following years with various expensive Roland gear abandonware, like the JP-80.
Nowadays my trust in future relevant updates and expansions of hardware buys is around ZERO, not just with Roland, but with any company except very, very few. Too many actual companies are much better in raising expectations than in really delivering, ever, or they need an eternity to do so, while I have long been moving on.
The new Fantom still is an interesting performance synth for what is is, but from my view definitely not at that price.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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Jan1
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 765
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| jimknopf wrote: | | the Fantom X may be quite a well done performance synth |
That's also how I view the new Fantom at this point, a performance synth+.
I am really impressed with the sound of this Fantom, and that makes it all the more a pity that this release feels a bit rushed to the market before all the features have been implemented.
It would be wise if Roland would announce their plans for future updates, surely there must be a roadmap for their plans?
I read about plans to implement a sampler, I wonder if perhaps modeled acoustic instruments are also somewhere on the map.
How much room is there for expansions?
On Roland's site they state that 'our custom Behavior Modeling Chips power FANTOM’s core'.
Does that also include (future) acoustic modeling?
There are a lot of things unclear about the ZEN core and Roland's plans for the future, and I think it would be wise on Roland's part to make some statements about their plans for the new Fantom. |
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leonh
Full Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 228
Location: Hadleigh UK
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Main problem is price 3000£ for 61 keys for that money you can get Montage plus 1000£ left to spend . |
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RKfan
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 402
Location: Cambridge, England
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Saw a 61 key version in PMT Cambridge this morning - very nice looking - kind of a cross between a Kronos and Montage the Pads and the TR type data entry and pads are pretty interesting. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| leonh wrote: | | Main problem is price 3000£ for 61 keys for that money you can get Montage plus 1000£ left to spend . |
Fantom is a much different beast than Montage or Kronos.
I understand many see this as a battle of " who gets my $4000 ? "
For the next 3-6 months, the price will not discourage. Here is why.
The price will not be a problem for the music studios and early adopters.
Simply, there are many folks that have the cash and credit and have no problem with $4000 on an interesting new w/s.
Then, we will see name performers with the Fantom.
In 6 months or less , there will be a bunch of " Oh. OIC now ".
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams 
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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jeremykeys
Platinum Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 3092
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Bachus wrote: | | xp50player wrote: | | jeremykeys wrote: | So I guess the next big question here will be, what can it do that the Kronos can't?
|
1. All 16 stereo parts have USB output (3 stereo returns)
2. Dual analog filter with direct analog out.
3. TR drum machine style programming
4. On-screen drum pattern editor.
5. Tones bring their own effect into the Scene with no fiddling.
6. High resolution controls(1024 steps), with large value displayed
7. Ladder/Ring LEDs, most controls lit.
8. PCM Sync osc type (special PCM Sync waves)
9. Better/sexy editing menus, not from an office copier.
10. New custom semi-weighted keybed and top-notch PHA-50
11. Famous modeled osc and filter types.
12. More effects. All parts have own MFX, + 2 Scene IFX, AFX(analog filter/drive/amp, Scene Reverb & Chorus, and system multiband compressor.
13. Boot time(!!!!)
14. Non-volatile song/pattern storage within the Scene.
15. Remote Apple music products control from display and transport buttons
16. Drag envelopes on screen.
17. Full screen 4-part vector pad with auto-mode and momentary/latch options.
18. Wang stick & wheels. |
Leaves us with another question, what does kronos offer not available on the new Fantom..
1. All 9 engines..
2. Karma
3. Sampler.. and huge room for user samples...
4. Vector stick and touchstrip
5. 16 audio tracks in sequencer
6.
Probably more, but don’t see them right now.. |
Well, this makes it quite easy then! I get to keep my trusty old Kronos and not worry and spending money on something that in my opinion doesn't do as much as what I already have. Sure, it can do some things but not really enough to me to warrant spending a lot of money.
_________________
If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats! |
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