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Making The Most Of What You Already Have.

 
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NativeAngels
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:58 pm    Post subject: Making The Most Of What You Already Have. Reply with quote

With the latest batch of arrangers around the corner. I think do people really make the most of what they already have?

I've had my Pa700 for two years now and still tweaking it and updating keyboard sets and sounds as I learn more. The sound evolves as I learn more.

I see people come and go on here and other forums who get a Korg Arranger or other makes of Arranger and give up after a few days without actually sitting down an spending time getting to know it / them.
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very true.

I bought one of the very first 700’s in the UK on the spur of the moment from A&C Hamilton’s whose shop is near where I live and I just happened to call in to see when they would have a demo version available, they did and I bought it.

Still learning my way around it, still wanting to learn more and the Webinars certainly help in unlocking the mysteries of certain features.

Could not see Yamaha doing what Korg do for customer support.
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Why get a Korg Arranger and give up after a few days Reply with quote

NativeAngels wrote:
.. I see people come and go on here and other forums who get a Korg Arranger or other makes of Arranger and give up after a few days without actually sitting down an spending time getting to know it / them...


This is not surprising – users that already had a perhaps smaller predecessor's model of a Korg Arrangers miss some functions in ‘latest batch of arrangers around the corner’.

Mostly functions of the style player that were decimated (missed or limited functions) are not to enable with tweaking, webseminars or updating of kbdSet for using a new arranger model as variable as was done with a smaller predecessor's model.

Accustomed with the functionality of the style player from the smallest previous arranger will cause to give up a new midrange arranger, if its functionality does not fulfil the usual demands.

It should not happen that one have to change his personal predilection how to play a music instrument, only to adapt himself to the restrictions of a new model.

If one would like to use Fill-Ins with it to select an predefinde style-variations via fill-mode,
if one would like to trigger different style functions separately pro KbdSet via velo-control,
if one would like to use sb-entries in a running style for some more style-selections without changing realtime-sounds etc
ALL THAT REALLY SHOULD BE POSSIBLE AS WE HAD IN PREVIOUS ARRANGERS – if that is not possible ‘with the latest batch of arrangers around the corner’ you get, than you will give up after a few days, if it is impossible playing styles as usual.
*
We had discussions – some of them since 2017 - about Fill-In, Fill-Mode, Style-Preferences, VelocityControl and sensless sb-switch to KbdSet#1 with running style etc. None of that discussed shortcomings - that prevent usage of styleplayers in new arrangers to be used in same manner as we had with predecessor's – were considered in updates of Pa1000/700.

--> Threads “Lost arranger features Pa1000/700”, “Pa1000 autoFill/4 fillButtons”, “OS next Pa700 and Pa1000” etc

john jay wrote:
...… As result the way these arrangers have been developed - not being fully backward compatible - will keep me and maybe some more people from upgrading …. ..


Not necessary to repeat: We did not talk about special new wishes/requests, but rather of useful functions that we already had in the starter models, but are missing now.
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Why get a Korg Arranger and give up after a few days Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:
NativeAngels wrote:
.. I see people come and go on here and other forums who get a Korg Arranger or other makes of Arranger and give up after a few days without actually sitting down an spending time getting to know it / them...


This is not surprising – users that already had a perhaps smaller predecessor's model of a Korg Arrangers miss some functions in ‘latest batch of arrangers around the corner’.

Mostly functions of the style player that were decimated (missed or limited functions) are not to enable with tweaking, webseminars or updating of kbdSet for using a new arranger model as variable as was done with a smaller predecessor's model.

Accustomed with the functionality of the style player from the smallest previous arranger will cause to give up a new midrange arranger, if its functionality does not fulfil the usual demands.

It should not happen that one have to change his personal predilection how to play a music instrument, only to adapt himself to the restrictions of a new model.

If one would like to use Fill-Ins with it to select an predefinde style-variations via fill-mode,
if one would like to trigger different style functions separately pro KbdSet via velo-control,
if one would like to use sb-entries in a running style for some more style-selections without changing realtime-sounds etc
ALL THAT REALLY SHOULD BE POSSIBLE AS WE HAD IN PREVIOUS ARRANGERS – if that is not possible ‘with the latest batch of arrangers around the corner’ you get, than you will give up after a few days, if it is impossible playing styles as usual.
*
We had discussions – some of them since 2017 - about Fill-In, Fill-Mode, Style-Preferences, VelocityControl and sensless sb-switch to KbdSet#1 with running style etc. None of that discussed shortcomings - that prevent usage of styleplayers in new arrangers to be used in same manner as we had with predecessor's – were considered in updates of Pa1000/700.

--> Threads “Lost arranger features Pa1000/700”, “Pa1000 autoFill/4 fillButtons”, “OS next Pa700 and Pa1000” etc

john jay wrote:
...… As result the way these arrangers have been developed - not being fully backward compatible - will keep me and maybe some more people from upgrading …. ..


Not necessary to repeat: We did not talk about special new wishes/requests, but rather of useful functions that we already had in the starter models, but are missing now.


REPETITIVE, you are like a stuck record.

Over and over you moan about Korg changing the functionality of their keyboards.

What do you hope to achieve by posting a rant at every opportunity.

Let us hope that Korg produce a special version of their operating system specifically for you.

Meanwhile the rest of us can continue to enjoy our great keyboards.
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Giner
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As my wife from Rotherham might say, "Gi ovver." Smile
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Why get a Korg Arranger and give up after a few days Reply with quote

Biggles wrote:
... REPETITIVE, you are like a stuck record. Over and over you moan about Korg changing the functionality of their keyboards.
What do you hope to achieve by posting a rant at every opportunity.
Let us hope that Korg produce a special version of their operating system specifically for you.
Meanwhile the rest of us can continue to enjoy our great keyboards.


Instead of bringing forward ridiculous personal attacks repetitive like a stuck record, better you would try be to essentially.
What do you hope to achieve by posting a rant at every opportunity without considering threads thematic?

I represent my personal opinion and my personal experiences - made with functional restrictions of a Pa1000 that I returned some days after tests that have pointed its shortcomings compared to predecessor. That is not moaning about Korg changing the functionality of their keyboards, but concrete and in detail described criticism where functionality is insufficient.
Already complained in January 2018 none of them (fill-mode, velo-control for kbd-sets in preferences, sb-entries in running styles without switching to kbdSet#1) so far were considered in updates.

It is ok if you - selfappointed as " rest of us" (maybe amount of forum user is approximately 40.000) - meanwhile can continue to enjoy your great keyboards without features we talk about.
A regression of the functionality from styleplayer features is joyless for each user if one needs this - that is not ok.

To get an OS that at least reaches the standards of styleplayers-functionality of the small predecessor's models it is not necessary to produce a special version.
Simply re-implementation of existing features of small predecessors would help Pa1000/700 could be applied as variable as it could be done with styleplay-functions of Pa4x/800/500.

As Pa1000 is no stripped version of small predecessors - let us hope that Korg will consider this in an OS update.

With it the question would be unnecessary "Why get a Korg Arranger and give up after a few days".

PS: Hope you try to understand essential arguments of john jay in thread "PA1000 auto fill/ 4 fill buttons" without answering again with unqualified personal attacks.
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: Making The Most Of What You Already Have. Reply with quote

NativeAngels wrote:
With the latest batch of arrangers around the corner. I think do people really make the most of what they already have?

I've had my Pa700 for two years now and still tweaking it and updating keyboard sets and sounds as I learn more. The sound evolves as I learn more.

I see people come and go on here and other forums who get a Korg Arranger or other makes of Arranger and give up after a few days without actually sitting down an spending time getting to know it / them.


You know, I have to agree. We have such great technology at our fingertips (pun intended) and all we do is complain about what they do not do, versus what the model they have DOES do.

I bought the PA700 almost right after they came out (my serial number is 133, I believe) and this thing has served me well. I LOVE what it does and always find new things about it that keep me coming back for more from it.

If one takes the time to truly learn their instrument, maybe they would keep it longer.

I think that part of the reason that people skip from model to model sometimes, is because they do not take the time to learn it. I still have synths in my studio that were made in 1990 and I still get A LOT of use from them.

I think that because of the day/age we live in, we are struck with the 'instant gratification' gene that says that if we are not immediately inspired and have our attention held, we move on.

I have read the posts of people complaining about their synth and about what it SHOULD do, versus what it DOES do and it is not surprising that they leave and get something else. I feel that these folks will never be happy with any model from any brand. I believe it to be a rather elitist attitude to turn down a synth because it does not do EVERYTHING that they want it to do.

We should take the time to truly learn our instruments. They should be long-time purchases that span many years, if not decades...

Grace,
Harry
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NativeAngels
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think with the time spent on both my Pa700 and Tyros 4 getting them to how I want them. And revisting arrangements and registrations (keyboard sets) updating them as you learn how to do things. Eq'ing individual sounds can make the world of difference.
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Randelph
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question of getting the most from our instruments is a loaded one.

When I had the Yamaha Motif XS7, the flagship back in 2007, I bought it for all the features. What I didn't know is that it was very user unfriendly for many of the things I wanted to do with it. Doesn't matter how many features it has if it's a drag to learn and remember how to do things.

I'm very hopeful with the PA 1000 that'll be coming next Friday. With its big touchscreen, and from what I've seen of it so far from the Korg Tutorial videos, it's a pretty intuitive board to operate.

However, beyond the Korg video tutorials, I don't see a whole lot of other video materials out there. Video is my preferred way of learning, and while I've started to peruse the manual, I find that new concepts can be really challenging to tackle with just a written manual, and based on my past keyboards, I rarely get into some of the cooler functions a board has to offer 'cause I never completely rose to the challenge of RTFM!

Anyway, just hope there are more video tutorials out there that I haven't found yet when I did a search on YouTube for PA 700/1000.

Thanks,
Randy
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NativeAngels
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a look at the Webinars at korgworld.co.uk
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Making The Most Of What You Already Have. Reply with quote

Musicwithharry wrote:
.. If one takes the time to truly learn their instrument, maybe they would keep it longer...

.. that is ok.

NativeAngels wrote:
..I think with the time spent .. getting them to how I want them..


This, however, only is valid if there are no limits like missing features that would not allow to get them how you want them. With shortcoming Pa1000-styleplayer features that especially is really annoying compared to features of predecessors models as often mentioned here.

Musicwithharry wrote:
.. We have such great technology ... all we do is complain about what they do not do, versus what the model they have DOES do....


Such limits does no helpf if one takes the time to truly learn their instrument or would keep it longer. Also does not help a great technology if is entitled to complain about what no more a new arranger do not do versus what a previous model have done - if there are missing essential functions that also are expected from a successor.

Musicwithharry wrote:
.. believe it to be a rather elitist attitude to turn down a synth because it does not do EVERYTHING that they want it to do. ....


It think itself is not an elitist attitude to turn down a new arranger with restrictive new OS-designs of styleplay functions that does not allow to do what could be done with previous one. That is an entitled complaint until an OS-update will remove such shortcomings.

Musicwithharry wrote:
.. should be long-time purchases that span many years, if not decades... ....


It also is ok that our instruments should be long-time purchases that span many years, but as soon as urgent problems are not solved with OS-updates it do not prevent that an arranger will be given up after a few days. That sometimes will prevent to buy an instrument of the last generation so previous arrangers are long-time purchases that maybe span many years, if not decades ... if not finally also support for midrange arrangers (Pa1000/700) with an OS-update would become to be importantly for Korg!

NativeAngels wrote:
I see people come and go .. give up after a few days without actually sitting down an spending time getting to know it / them .. ....


Maybe you see such people - there also are others, that would well estimate sophisticated procedures and parameters of an instrument, if at least it would fulfil its styleplaer functions as we already had with Pa-keyboards 10 years ago!
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Musicwithharry
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Making The Most Of What You Already Have. Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:
Musicwithharry wrote:
.. If one takes the time to truly learn their instrument, maybe they would keep it longer...

.. that is ok.

NativeAngels wrote:
..I think with the time spent .. getting them to how I want them..


This, however, only is valid if there are no limits like missing features that would not allow to get them how you want them. With shortcoming Pa1000-styleplayer features that especially is really annoying compared to features of predecessors models as often mentioned here.

Musicwithharry wrote:
.. We have such great technology ... all we do is complain about what they do not do, versus what the model they have DOES do....


Such limits does no helpf if one takes the time to truly learn their instrument or would keep it longer. Also does not help a great technology if is entitled to complain about what no more a new arranger do not do versus what a previous model have done - if there are missing essential functions that also are expected from a successor.

Musicwithharry wrote:
.. believe it to be a rather elitist attitude to turn down a synth because it does not do EVERYTHING that they want it to do. ....


It think itself is not an elitist attitude to turn down a new arranger with restrictive new OS-designs of styleplay functions that does not allow to do what could be done with previous one. That is an entitled complaint until an OS-update will remove such shortcomings.

Musicwithharry wrote:
.. should be long-time purchases that span many years, if not decades... ....


It also is ok that our instruments should be long-time purchases that span many years, but as soon as urgent problems are not solved with OS-updates it do not prevent that an arranger will be given up after a few days. That sometimes will prevent to buy an instrument of the last generation so previous arrangers are long-time purchases that maybe span many years, if not decades ... if not finally also support for midrange arrangers (Pa1000/700) with an OS-update would become to be importantly for Korg!

NativeAngels wrote:
I see people come and go .. give up after a few days without actually sitting down an spending time getting to know it / them .. ....


Maybe you see such people - there also are others, that would well estimate sophisticated procedures and parameters of an instrument, if at least it would fulfil its styleplaer functions as we already had with Pa-keyboards 10 years ago!


Way to pick apart my statement to support your argument. I must give you credit that you would work so hard to do so...

There are a number of users who do not know that such features (as the one you are fixated with) used to, but no longer (at least in your interpretation), exist.

We do know that many users (as evidenced in this forum) upgrade from one machine to the newer one. Most of the time, I think that things with the OS go well. Sometimes, things change and it takes a bit more of doing to get it to do what one wants. Sometimes, they cannot replicate what they used to have in an older arranger into their newer arranger.

While I feel that Korg must have their ears (and programmers) on the pulse of their users, sometimes changes do happen. I experienced that myself with Ensoniq, when they were moving from the VFX-SD/SD-1 platform to the TS series platform. Many of us were not happy because what Ensoniq had in the VFX-SD/SD-1 worked so well. What did we do? We simply kept our existing machines and stayed away from the newer machines as long as we could. Ensoniq also attracted LOTS of new users who never had Ensoniq before because of the advancements made in the newer TS series. Maybe we were more forgiving and still stayed with the brand. It was a different time back then with synths.

Another thing happened: third party people made software that allowed for seamless transitions of older user data (at least with the sequencer) into the new TS series.

I really hope that you find a solution to what you perceive as shortcomings in the newer arrangers that Korg offers.

The attitude I described is absolutely an elitist attitude. To assume that everyone else is having the same problems one person is having does not mean that person is right and because of that, the manufacturer should rewrite the OS to suit the one's needs.

I think that EVERY synth had/has some kind of limitation. This may be because the manufacturer has created an instrument, that while infinitely customizable, is still constrained by a rather 'generic' design so that it fits the most people. I believe that Korg does this the least out of all of the other manufacturers.

Specifically, with regard to your issue that is well documented in other threads, I have not had that issue that you describe. I did have a PA500 for a time, but really had Roland arrangers until I got the PA700. For me, and I also assume for many others, it really seems to 'fit the bill'. It gives me all I need and I have high demands out of my gear.

As you can read in my signature, I have A LOT of older gear. The PA700 is the newest thing that I have and I am amazed when I compare it to my older gear, especially the older Roland arranger I still keep in my possession (at least until I buy another PA700). My Ensoniq gear is from 1990 (VFX and VFX-SD) and 1993 (the SQ-R+/32 rack units units). They have a character that NO ONE else can duplicate, so I keep them and will fix them if/when they fail.

I will say this: if you are having such an issue with Korg's new arrangers not doing what you want, maybe you should look at another brand...I mean no disrespect when I say this whatsoever.

Grace,
Harry
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Making The Most Of What You Already Have. Reply with quote

Hello Harry,

it would be enough if Korg would come with an OS-Update for Pa1000 to remove all that small inadequacies (styleplayers features) which are known very well since first shipment of Pa1000.

Who really want apply styleplayer features as could be done before - that is impossible. With styleplay-function "Most Of What You Already Have" had does not exist anymore in last series of arrangers!.

How proven with Pa4x-OS-update that really are no features KORG cannot replicate what they used previously in its midrange arrangers, but has forget on it or left out because saving costs.

So Pa1000 for extensive use with styles is inexpedient compared to Pa3x/800/500 - same like for Pa1000 is valid for styleplayers of other brands (fill-mode, velo-controll, cue-mode ..).

Unfortunately, the support of Korg has become worse for many years concerning the StylePlay features of Pa keyboards - and it is not necessary to fit last generation with limitations of styleplay features that eg do not allow to play some sb-styles with same realtime-tracks without to be disturbed with automatically set of KbdSet#1 (really is nonsense!).

That kind of arrangers are smf- and mp3-players imho - not arrangers with styleplayers but simple toys with styles.

Musicwithharry wrote:
... I believe it to be a rather elitist attitude to turn down a synth because it does not do EVERYTHING that they want it to do ....
The attitude I described is absolutely an elitist attitude. To assume that everyone else is having the same problems one person is having does not mean that person is right and because of that, the manufacturer should rewrite the OS to suit the one's needs. ...


I did not assume that - I simply described features existing in previous series may be expected in successors - that is not elitist attitude (quite the contrary).
Also does not mean manufacturer should suit the one's needs - but should update and rewrite its OS designed without backward-engeneering.

*
Maybe - hope so - an OS next for Pa1000 will follow until New Year.
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