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Midi Channels

 
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rpowell01
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Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject: Midi Channels Reply with quote

I am in COMBI mode using COMBI mode to setup all my instruments on their own Midi channel so I can record in Pro Tools. But something is not right because of the Global channel. Can Combie Mode be setup without even using that global channel, example Midi Channel 1 shows 1G which I'm thinking meaning midi channel 1 in global. If I switch my midi channel to Channel 2 in Global mode channel one will still play whenever I press a note on my keybed.

I take it Combi Mode cannot be setup like this and I need to use sequencer mode to do what I want?
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19naia
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Midi Channel Reply with quote

rpowell01 wrote:
I am in COMBI mode using COMBI mode to setup all my instruments on their own Midi channel so I can record in Pro Tools. But something is not right because of the Global channel. Can Combie Mode be setup without even using that global channel, example Midi Channel 1 shows 1G which I'm thinking meaning midi channel 1 in global. If I switch my midi channel to Channel 2 in Global mode channel one will still play whenever I press a note on my keybed.

I take it Combi Mode cannot be setup like this and I need to use sequencer mode to do what I want?


There is Gch and 01G channel. Gch setting will follow whatever channel you set as global channel.
I think 01G will follow channel 1 and whatever midi channel global has as setting. Maybe 01G means it can follow two channels at once(any channel global uses and channel 1). Which is nothing special, considering Omni channel is a common setting in modern midi devices. Kronos has no real omni channel setting.

I am not sure exactly what the difference and reason is for 01G and Gch, but the timbre parameters for midi in sequencer, does not include 01G setting nor Gch setting. So there should not be an issue of channel 1 always following any Global channel in sequencer mode.
But there is no escape that one of the channels in sequencer is going to follow Gchannel, if you don’t change Gchannel setting at some point. Combi mode merely has permanent preference that it be channel 1 that follows global channel.
01G must simply be about factory combi sets that are based on Gchannel being set to 1. Sort of a clue to remind users. ???

I am not sure how you are set up for recording to protools and if you are recording kronos internal sounds, external sounds or a mix of both..
Sequencer has timbre/track status settings for Both, internal, external and external 2. Combi does not have setting for “both”. Combi only has for internal or external.

Some people only work in Sequencer mode because, if it can’t be done in Sequencer, it is not going to get done in Combi.
Sequencer has more than a few extra tricks and flexibilities, than combi does.
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rpowell01
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave up. If I disable Play on Channel 1 then Midi Channel 2 will turn to 2G.....If I set my board up in Global Mode to Midi Channel 2 midi channel 1 will play no matter what. So I'm switching over to Sequencer Mode. I don't know what made me wanting to use Combi Mode that the Sequencer Mode does when using ext DAW such as Pro Tools 2018....There should be a way to completely disable 1G and so in Combi mode.
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psionic311
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Combi mode on a standalone keyboard, if you change your Kronos to global MIDI channel 2, you should not be able to play the Kronos channel 1 sounds, unless you set up KARMA to do so.

(Also notice when you change the Global MIDI channel to 2, back in Combi mode channel 2 now is the global channel 02G. Whatever channel is set in Global mode becomes the "G" channel in Combi mode, and that's the channel the Kronos will transmit on).

This tells me that Pro Tools is somehow re-channelizing the ch2 info sent from the Kronos and sending it back on ch1 to play the Kronos. Perhaps there are MIDI settings in Pro Tools that need to be checked?

Just a hunch, hopefully that helps you somehow.
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried it on my Krons just to be sure and i had only Kronos standalone with no other midi devices connected.
And An initialized combi with Berlin grand on Channel 01G then i went to global to switch Gchannel to 2. I went back to the combi and timbre 2 on channel 2 is sounding Berlin grand along with Timbre 1 on channel 1.
I mute timbre 1 and then 2 plays. I mute timbre 2 and play timbre 1 with sound coming from midi ch-1.

The behaviour of channel is that it plays as both Channel 1 and whatever Gchannel is. Does not matter if it becomes 01G or simply 1 channel.
Channel 1 simply functions only as global channel.

I turned on my midi drum machine and set the external device bass section to channel 11 and set kronos global to 11 and then timbre 1 to channel 1, and i got both Berlin grand and drum machine bass track playing together from timbre 1 set to midi channel 1.
All other timbre were silent except for 11 on channel 11. So i muted 11 and only timbre 1 on channel 1, playing both internal sounds over channel 1 and external sounds over channel 11.

And it is not timbre 1 being stuck on Gchannel. It is midi channel 1 being stuck on Gchannel no matter what channel number you set up in global midi.
I moved Midi ch 1 to timbre 2 and channel 2 to timbre 1 and the situation simply moved to timbre two. It follows midi ch-1 to whatever track or timbre it goes.

I cannot find a way around it either, with or without external devices.

Seems it may be designed as a very minimal omni channel, but also seems like a waste of channel 1 in instances where what it does it is not needed.
I can have channel 1 play itself on berlin grand and play an external or internal layer on channel 11G if i need, -but if i don’t need that, i cannot isolate channel 1 from Gchannel.

I went to Sequencer using all internal sounds and nothing connected to Kronos and started to get the same channel 1 behaviour, even as i shifted global channel setting.

Not sure Sequencer will be an escape from it either.

Maybe there is a way but i don’t know.
Didn’t even realize it was how channel 1 behaved because i never worked on anything that required separating channel 1 from Global channel.
Makes sense why channel 1 is default global. Or maybe this was designed in to keep channel 1 the global channel, as a midi standard like General midi standards that allow different devices to keep some level of easily manageable compatibility.
My Boss drum machine uses channel 10 by default, for drums just like kronos drum track does. So i know there are midi channel standards between midi device makers. Drum track channel and global channel standards.
That is the only sense i can make of it forcing channel 1 to be global channel.


One channel or another will have to be global channel and i have never had a problem leaving it at channel 1 default.
So i don’t have a problem with it behaving this way.
I don’t see it as a problem but it is interesting to discover among all the flexibility that kronos has, but just not in this midi channel 1 area.

Maybe there is more to it. I never tried it under external timbre/track status, or “Both” status.
Maybe it will behave differently when track status is changed to both or external?
I never checked to see if that would change the channel 1 behaviour.
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19naia
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually i missed the track select part of Sequencer and that got me the misleading results that i was not escaping the combi situation.

I followed the Midi track select and only the selected tracks played and Midi channel 1 does not play if it is not selected.

The same situation exists in Sequencer but midi track select lets you move away from it.
Sequencer plays internal sounds of any track selected via track select and at the same time any track matching global channel.

Combi channel 1 has any timbre behaving like a Sequencer track.
But without the benefit of midi track select.

I still feel confused about it, and like i am not understanding enough of what is going on with this behavior.
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rpowell01
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct in Seq mode selecting midi track works for me bit not in combi mode. Also if i copy a combi to seq mode then its doing the same thing as it was in combi mode. Even if switch to midi track 2 midi 1 still plays. Just a simple piano no Karma. So I will just use Seq mode to record to Pro Tools. Btw Midi thru in PT is disabled so thats not it and all midi channels are setup properly in PT. Korg setup midi channel 1 as 1G and theres no Midi 1. If you disable play on Midi 1G then Midi 2 turn to 2G automatically. I wonder if this is a bug because i recall previous some years ago we coukd choose midi 1 or 1G?
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siwaj11



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi rpowell01

I have similar issue, but I have remedy on that.

I am using Roland Integra 7 as external sound module for my Korg Kronos.

issue is when I Play something on the keys, piano sound are coming from that channel that is assigned from my kronos global mode.

In my case I assign Channel 16 as my (Gh16) in my Kronos Global mode so that my Kronos and Integra 7 can communicate on that channel.

What i did is I sacrificed the timber 16 from my kronos. I just mute it or set to (off) instead of ( INT, EXT1, EXT2 ) that way whenever you play something, that Gh16 that is on the timber 16 won't annoy you.

But I think there is another way to setup some configuration between your DAW and kronos as I am using Cubase and Logic pro. I haven't experience this issue, only after I use an external sound module.

Good Luck Very Happy

Gear: Korg Kronos, Korg K 49 Series, Korg Nanopad, INTEGRA 7, KRK Rokit 8, MacPro, Macair, LogicPro X, Reason 4, Sennheiser Microphone, Shure SLX, Behringer X32
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geert



Joined: 17 May 2019
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Midi Channels Reply with quote

rpowell01 wrote:
I am in COMBI mode using COMBI mode to setup all my instruments on their own Midi channel so I can record in Pro Tools. But something is not right because of the Global channel. Can Combie Mode be setup without even using that global channel, example Midi Channel 1 shows 1G which I'm thinking meaning midi channel 1 in global. If I switch my midi channel to Channel 2 in Global mode channel one will still play whenever I press a note on my keybed.

I take it Combi Mode cannot be setup like this and I need to use sequencer mode to do what I want?

I just bought the Krog Kronos, and I have the same problem. I like to set it up like a 16 channel sound module. This is not possible? Not in Combi and not in Seq?
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StephenKay
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a point of clarification: the "G" after 01G simply indicates that the global channel is also set to 1. if you set your global channel to 2, then Channel 1 will display 01 and channel 2 will display 02G - indicating that the global channel is also set to 2.

The "G" simply follows around, and gets attached to whatever the global channel is set to.
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HardSync
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not entirely certain I understand the issues here, so forgive me if I've misunderstood. But I think the problem lies with the Timbre Thru setting turned on the P7: KARMA GE Setup/Key Zones page. Without going into lots of detail for now, ensure that Timbre Thru is unchecked in MIDI I/O section and see if you still have the same issues.
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loiscr



Joined: 22 Mar 2021
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: Midi Channels Reply with quote

rpowell01 wrote:
I am in COMBI mode using COMBI mode to setup all my instruments on their own Midi channel so I can record in Pro Tools. But something is not right because of the Global channel. Can Combie Mode be setup without even using that global channel, example Midi Channel 1 shows 1G which I'm thinking meaning midi channel 1 in global. If I switch my midi channel to Channel 2 in Global mode channel one will still play whenever I press a note on my keybed.

I take it Combi Mode cannot be setup like this and I need to use sequencer mode to do what I want?


After several days of going crazy, I think I have found where the error is.

It turns out that Karma is redirecting and "duplicating" the Gch midi data to Ch1.

If you go to the KARMA / GE SETUP / KEYZONES tab, look at the bottom, where it says "MIDI I/O"

You will see that by default it is set that karma in (A) everything that it receives through the CH channel is forwarded to channel 1.

This is working EVEN though karma is turned off (YEAH, MY FRIEND).

For this reason, in global mode if we indicate that we do NOT want channel 1 to be global, channel 1 continues to play, because even if we have set ch5 as global (for example) karma continues to transmit from global midi to 1 and 1 continues to play.

That is why 1 always continues to work, because even if we deactivate it, karma continues to pass the information to it.

Note that if you put in midi I/O Gch to Ch2 now it will be channel 2 that will always play even if we put in global that the global channel is 7 for example.

That's where all the problems come from. And now all the problems you explained make sense.

I don't know what the solution is the best to disable this repetitive routing. What I have done has been to put in MIDI (I/O) in the karma modules (A, B, C and D) input ch 16 and Output CH 16 and Timbre Thru OFF for more security.

So the karma repeater router does not hear and does not speak at all. I have sacrificed channel 16 because I don't use it and because I don't use karma. What if you use 16 or use karma, you will have to see how you configure it, but you already know where the problem is and what you have to adjust with!

I guess this is correct on KORG's part, but it's a bit "cheating" to leave that routing active there by default, since it makes you go crazy and don't know where the failures come from.

I hope I have helped you even if it is late, I was very happy to have discovered it, because I thought it was a Korg problem and I was not going to be able to do what I wanted with the Kronos.
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loiscr



Joined: 22 Mar 2021
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

19naia wrote:
I tried it on my Krons just to be sure and i had only Kronos standalone with no other midi devices connected.
And An initialized combi with Berlin grand on Channel 01G then i went to global to switch Gchannel to 2. I went back to the combi and timbre 2 on channel 2 is sounding Berlin grand along with Timbre 1 on channel 1.
I mute timbre 1 and then 2 plays. I mute timbre 2 and play timbre 1 with sound coming from midi ch-1.

The behaviour of channel is that it plays as both Channel 1 and whatever Gchannel is. Does not matter if it becomes 01G or simply 1 channel.
Channel 1 simply functions only as global channel.

I turned on my midi drum machine and set the external device bass section to channel 11 and set kronos global to 11 and then timbre 1 to channel 1, and i got both Berlin grand and drum machine bass track playing together from timbre 1 set to midi channel 1.
All other timbre were silent except for 11 on channel 11. So i muted 11 and only timbre 1 on channel 1, playing both internal sounds over channel 1 and external sounds over channel 11.

And it is not timbre 1 being stuck on Gchannel. It is midi channel 1 being stuck on Gchannel no matter what channel number you set up in global midi.
I moved Midi ch 1 to timbre 2 and channel 2 to timbre 1 and the situation simply moved to timbre two. It follows midi ch-1 to whatever track or timbre it goes.

I cannot find a way around it either, with or without external devices.

Seems it may be designed as a very minimal omni channel, but also seems like a waste of channel 1 in instances where what it does it is not needed.
I can have channel 1 play itself on berlin grand and play an external or internal layer on channel 11G if i need, -but if i don’t need that, i cannot isolate channel 1 from Gchannel.

I went to Sequencer using all internal sounds and nothing connected to Kronos and started to get the same channel 1 behaviour, even as i shifted global channel setting.

Not sure Sequencer will be an escape from it either.

Maybe there is a way but i don’t know.
Didn’t even realize it was how channel 1 behaved because i never worked on anything that required separating channel 1 from Global channel.
Makes sense why channel 1 is default global. Or maybe this was designed in to keep channel 1 the global channel, as a midi standard like General midi standards that allow different devices to keep some level of easily manageable compatibility.
My Boss drum machine uses channel 10 by default, for drums just like kronos drum track does. So i know there are midi channel standards between midi device makers. Drum track channel and global channel standards.
That is the only sense i can make of it forcing channel 1 to be global channel.


One channel or another will have to be global channel and i have never had a problem leaving it at channel 1 default.
So i don’t have a problem with it behaving this way.
I don’t see it as a problem but it is interesting to discover among all the flexibility that kronos has, but just not in this midi channel 1 area.

Maybe there is more to it. I never tried it under external timbre/track status, or “Both” status.
Maybe it will behave differently when track status is changed to both or external?
I never checked to see if that would change the channel 1 behaviour.


The explanation that I just gave, also explains the reason and solution of this problem. Look above please.
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Hot Air



Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Dubai, UAE

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info loiscr, I’m just about to start using my KronosX with Cubase. I’m glad I browsed this discussion because I know it will save me the same headaches. All the best.
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AdamT



Joined: 21 Nov 2022
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, since this is a MIDI channel topic, I’m having some issues with pads and MIDI channels on a Combi being triggered from notes on the keyboard from my Kronos 2. Another user has graciously helped me get the right program to I want to sound on the pads from the combi but I’m having trouble getting it to be triggered by the notes I specify on the keyboard now.
I set up an organ sound to timbre 4 in the combi. I changed the MIDI channel on it to 4 and the rest of the channels were “Gch” (Global Channel).
I then went to the “pad” tab and changed the MIDI channel of the first 4 to channel (4) and that worked for them on the screen. The pads then sounded like the organ I wanted. Now comes the part I can’t get to work. I want to trigger them from notes on my keyboard. I had to go back and remap the notes to just (C1-F1). However now it won’t trigger on the keyboard at all now. Is there something in the Global settings I missed up to where they won’t trigger? I can go to the “MIDI” tab in Global and at the top where it has “MIDI channel” which is default at (1). I can change it to (4) which is what the pads are on and it works then from the keyboard but it also sounds the cp-80 timbre along with it and I have no idea why.

On this combi I have a cp-80 sound on timbre 1 split with an organ on timbre 2 in the upper register and then I have another organ layered in the upper register to blend with the organ from timbre 2. On timbre 4 is another different organ sound I have explicitly for the pads I want to use.
That’s the sound I’m trying to trigger from notes on the keyboard though rather than the on screen pads.

I feel stuck or maybe I have too much going on in this combi for it to work properly.
Any help on this since I feel it’s a MIDI channel problem perhaps?
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