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DAW's and Kronos
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't really matter, the audio interface and the keyboard don't really "talk" in that sense. I have no experience with either interface though, maybe someone else can chime in.

You can add an SSD later but if you want to change the OS drive it's a bit trickier than just adding it for, say, sample storage. The benefit of an SSD is mainly in the speed - everything you load from it just feels snappier. I think many SSDs come with a migration utility but I haven't used one.
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amit
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although you'd be fine with specs for omnisphere, question is what polyphony do you need and how many simultaneous multi instances you intend to run.
It can easily bring a modest system to knees.
With Daws you also need to account for its native overhead, sonar/ableton is bit better than say studio one/ pro tools.
For me the most efficient DAW is Reaper, especially while tracking. After I have the takes finalised, I bounce to audio and bring into other DAWS
`s as needed.
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4GodnWV
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sander,

The Dell I sited is a desktop. I can get a laptop with the same specs except a 256 SSD for about $100 more. The laptop would be much easier to mount for live use.

I thought 'more' memory would be better. Would the 256 SSD be enough? I guess I could always add an external HHD for storage.

My primary purpose was to buy a PC and DAW to facilitate recording using my Kronos. As I processed options, I considered future plans to add both NI instruments and Omnisphere instruments to recordings as well as my live worship setup.

Having a semi-weighted keyboard would be advantageous as well. I have a K2 73 - love it for pianos, pads, and orchestral stuff, but it's a little sluggish for synth licks. Hence the NI S61 Mk2.

So, the original idea of using a DAW has sort of morphed as I have tried to think ahead, while building the system over time.

4God
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4GodnWV
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="amit"]what polyphony do you need and how many simultaneous multi instances you intend to run.

LOL - wanna say that in English?
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amit
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="4GodnWV"]
amit wrote:
what polyphony do you need and how many simultaneous multi instances you intend to run.

LOL - wanna say that in English?

Smile
what I meant is,
1 plugin instance (track) Omnisphere can be in multi-mode (like 8 layers).
you can also load more instances of omnisphere into different tracks with more multis or divided into sepatate outputs.

Multiply these with the numbers of notes being played/Held at any given time and it becomes very taxing on the CPU.

I don't think you'd run into those issues early on but nevertheless wanted to make you aware as there are some multi patches in there that even a single instance can hog the system if you hold a chord and some.
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4GodnWV
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amit,

I see. I have run into similar problems a time or two when getting greedy building combi's on the Kronos. Once the voice stealing really kicks in you can get disappointed fairly quickly. Bottom line, I have to start somewhere. Trying to get as much bang for my buck as I can.

Thnx,
4God
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If bang for the buck is a consideration, don't go for a laptop. Laptops with performance similar to desktops are way more expensive. Although laptops can also come with "i7" labeled CPUs, these mobile versions are by definition less powerful in favor of better energy efficiency.
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voip
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are even some some single (non multi) Omnisphere patches that will max out a CPU fairly quickly if more than one note is played across the keyboard, rather than being held down. Reducing the number of effects can improve matters. Kronos handles voice stealing remarkably well; in most situations it is hardly noticeable. As with Omnisphere, reducing the number of effects in use can improve voice stealing considerably, if it becomes an issue.

.
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4GodnWV
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voip, amit, et al:

Do you guys sample VST sounds into the Kronos?

Starting to think maybe I should pass on Omnisphere at this time and focus on getting the Kronos/DAW setup, then add the NI stuff.

Omnisphere can wait a few months.
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I've sampled smaller things but it's hardly worth the bother (for me) to sample a VST sound. With all the velocity layers, creating correct loop points, redoing FX and still ending up with something that doesn't sound as great as the VST, it's just too much effort.

Still, if you have to bring a VST sound into a live situation and you can't/don't want to bring your computer it's cool that you can do it. I just wouldn't count on bringing a large selection of patches over quickly.
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

voip wrote:
There are even some some single (non multi) Omnisphere patches that will max out a CPU fairly quickly if more than one note is played across the keyboard, rather than being held down. Reducing the number of effects can improve matters. Kronos handles voice stealing remarkably well; in most situations it is hardly noticeable. As with Omnisphere, reducing the number of effects in use can improve voice stealing considerably, if it becomes an issue.

.


Yes, Kronos handles voice stealing extremely well when in live mode...

Altough, in many of my favourite patches the performance meters are allways in the red... thats why i have been hoping for quite some time now for a Kronos with a power CPU..


In the end Omnisphere is not even the most taxing VST, try Diva at max settings.. (altough diva has many settings that allow for performance improvements)

For serious live layering of VST's and effects... its best to build a multi cpu desktop, with a huge amount of memmory.. you can build upto 4 CPU's with multi cores and 64 GB of memmory into a relatively small PC that fits nicely under your Kronos, and then use the Kronos to select sounds and the ext section to controll them... works like a charm(external module).. no screen needed when playing live
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amit
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes sometime I do sample, but there are limits, most of the stuff I like has some motion/movement to it and unless I sample every Note with good duration, it Just wont work.
but don't let the talks discourage you.

Omnisphere is great. What you learn when working with Daw is Resource Management.

What I do is I Freeze the tracks I am done with in the DAW( it converts the midi recording to audio and disabled the plugin, If i need to edit the midi, I just unfreeze the tack, make the edits and freeze it again. Most Daw's Support this, and this is the way to work in DAW's anyway when you have many tracks.
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4GodnWV wrote:

Do you guys sample VST sounds into the Kronos?


yes, i do this all the time, i use SampleRobot for this, without it it would take to much time, but with sample robot i select the preset in one of my vsts and press a button and it creates all the samples and mappings for me which i can instantly load in the kronos. (on my facebook-page i've posted a few examples of this in the past).

Actually, the kronos tutorial i'm working on at the moment will show how easy it is to clone VST sounds with samplerobot to the kronos. (this includes the mapping and automatic looping feature and the end result in the korg kronos and korg pa4x)
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amit wrote:


What I do is I Freeze the tracks I am done with in the DAW( it converts the midi recording to audio and disabled the plugin, If i need to edit the midi, I just unfreeze the tack, make the edits and freeze it again. Most Daw's Support this, and this is the way to work in DAW's anyway when you have many tracks.

how many tracks do you have then?
This was indeed the way to work in the old days, but now with those fast cpu's and 64 bit daw's this shouldn't be nessecary nowadays.

In my projects i use up till 32 sounds from omnisphere, lot's of sylenth and NI synths and there is absolutely no need to do the freezing procedure anymore.

I can imagine that when you use a lot of diva sounds in devine mode then you will run out of cpu, but normally this only applies to 32 bits daws and older cpu's.
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amit
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

QuiRobinez wrote:
amit wrote:


What I do is I Freeze the tracks I am done with in the DAW( it converts the midi recording to audio and disabled the plugin, If i need to edit the midi, I just unfreeze the tack, make the edits and freeze it again. Most Daw's Support this, and this is the way to work in DAW's anyway when you have many tracks.

how many tracks do you have then?
This was indeed the way to work in the old days, but now with those fast cpu's and 64 bit daw's this shouldn't be nessecary nowadays.

In my projects i use up till 32 sounds from omnisphere, lot's of sylenth and NI synths and there is absolutely no need to do the freezing procedure anymore.

I can imagine that when you use a lot of diva sounds in devine mode then you will run out of cpu, but normally this only applies to 32 bits daws and older cpu's.


It's an old habit, but if I am at very low latencies like 64 sample buffer multi-tracking guitars, then any existing vsti overhead I like to avoid even in 64 bit.
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