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Genesis Tony Banks sounds on Kronos
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BillW
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 933
Location: Northern Virginia

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alanjpearson wrote:


I believe he used the ProS presets in the following order on Cinema Show:

Trumpet
Mute Trumpet
Steel Guitar
Violin
Telstar
Trumpet


We'll not be performing this one anytime soon as we're doing Foxtrot this summer, but I'll try Steel Guitar there.

Roger King is running MS and it sounds great. I'd imagine he's using samples for a lot of the old sounds, but it would be interesting to find out. I have the Mac Version of AMProSoloVST running via 32-lives and it's working great...not all of the sounds in it are spot on, so I do use some Kontakt-based samples as well.

I found an interview with Roger here that talks about his software:

http://www.twronline.net/issues/twr86/twr86_roger_king_interview.htm
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Geoff Flynn
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Joined: 04 Jun 2016
Posts: 145

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BillW wrote:
I have the Mac Version of AMProSoloVST running via 32-lives and it's working great...not all of the sounds in it are spot on, so I do use some Kontakt-based samples as well.


I'm the same Bill. Kontakt samples sound good.

Also some good ProSoloist samples in IKM Sample Tank plus I did a small amount of sampling of my ProSoloist before I sold it. Wish I'd done more although I rarely use these sounds they are always nice to have available.

Has anyone tried this for their Kronos? $99

http://www.karo-sounds.com/webkronos/kps_e.html
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mocando
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Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 1241
Location: Panama City, Panama

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alanjpearson wrote:

Most relevant Roger King from Steve Hacketts band uses Mainstage and claimed to me he only had one mini-crash.
I prefer hardware Cool


Wow, that's quite an endorsement for Mainstage. Makes me feel much better, and encourages me to continue building my Mac mini rig that I have planned.
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Martin Ocando

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Korg Software: KLC Wavestation, iWavestation for iPad
Non Korg: M-Audio Code 61 MIDI Controller, Nektar GX49 MIDI Controller
Music Computing: 16in Macbook Pro with Touch Bar Mid 2019, i9 32GB RAM 2TB Flash, MacOS Catalina - 2019 iPad Air 64GB
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alanjpearson
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Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 283

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BillW wrote:
alanjpearson wrote:


I believe he used the ProS presets in the following order on Cinema Show:

Trumpet
Mute Trumpet
Steel Guitar
Violin
Telstar
Trumpet


We'll not be performing this one anytime soon as we're doing Foxtrot this summer, but I'll try Steel Guitar there.

Roger King is running MS and it sounds great. I'd imagine he's using samples for a lot of the old sounds, but it would be interesting to find out. I have the Mac Version of AMProSoloVST running via 32-lives and it's working great...not all of the sounds in it are spot on, so I do use some Kontakt-based samples as well.

I found an interview with Roger here that talks about his software:

http://www.twronline.net/issues/twr86/twr86_roger_king_interview.htm

Stu Barnes runs the webring you posted and is our sound engineer Smile
I chatted to Roger on Cruise to the Edge a couple of years ago - lovely guy.

Here's our Cinema Show from a few years ago..........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9myqGWzZlZk
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jorgemncardoso
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Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys, regarding Tony's Synclavier sounds and for those who have Arturia's Synclavier vst, i compiled last year all the original sounds for home by the sea, mama and some other. I posted them on the facebook timbre share page. There is also there all the original factory sounds for the Synclavier that the original creator has converted to Arturis's format.

Here's the sounds I posted along with a small file demo of each:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jrvntjy6fycme49/AADePP6WGQp6swxterd_cqOna?dl=0
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mocando
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Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 1241
Location: Panama City, Panama

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jorgemncardoso wrote:
Hi guys, regarding Tony's Synclavier sounds and for those who have Arturia's Synclavier vst, i compiled last year all the original sounds for home by the sea, mama and some other. I posted them on the facebook timbre share page. There is also there all the original factory sounds for the Synclavier that the original creator has converted to Arturis's format.

Here's the sounds I posted along with a small file demo of each:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jrvntjy6fycme49/AADePP6WGQp6swxterd_cqOna?dl=0

I'm using your patches for Home By The Sea, Jorge. We haven't set up Mama yet, but your patches are simply amazing. Great work!!!
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Non Korg: M-Audio Code 61 MIDI Controller, Nektar GX49 MIDI Controller
Music Computing: 16in Macbook Pro with Touch Bar Mid 2019, i9 32GB RAM 2TB Flash, MacOS Catalina - 2019 iPad Air 64GB
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NormC
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Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does Tony use for Abacab? I hear at least three sounds. An organ and a couple leads.
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mocando
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Joined: 21 Apr 2009
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Location: Panama City, Panama

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NormC wrote:
What does Tony use for Abacab? I hear at least three sounds. An organ and a couple leads.


The Organ comes from the Prophet. The Arturia Prophet V have a great patch for a Pipe organ, that sounds almost exactly the same. Still need a bit of equalization to dumb down the high frequencies a bit, but is almost perfect. And for the lead, it comes from the mighty ARP Quadra. BTW, I think that the two different leads that you hear, is the same Quadra lead played either single hand or dual hand (one octave apart), so it sounds fatter, but is the same sound.

Sadly there is no easy way to get that lead without a Quadra emulation. For that you have two options:

1. There is a user made instrument (ensemble) for Native Instrument's Reaktor, which works great. The lead sounds very nice and close to the original, although not perfect, and it has a weird vibrato on sustain, that is not in the original, so I need to tweak it up a bit.
or
2. SynthMagic Sound of the Quadra. This is the industry standard in ARP Quadra VST's. Sadly is very expensive, and you need Native Instrument's Kontakt, so you'll end up spending a lot of money on it.

I recommend option 1 of you are on a tight budget, but for option 2, there are even specially created Genesis specific patches, Abacab included, for it, so is the way to go if you can afford it.
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Martin Ocando

Korg Gear: Wavestation
Korg Software: KLC Wavestation, iWavestation for iPad
Non Korg: M-Audio Code 61 MIDI Controller, Nektar GX49 MIDI Controller
Music Computing: 16in Macbook Pro with Touch Bar Mid 2019, i9 32GB RAM 2TB Flash, MacOS Catalina - 2019 iPad Air 64GB
Software: Apple MainStage, Arturia V Collection 7, Arturia OB-Xa V
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Geoff Flynn
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Joined: 04 Jun 2016
Posts: 145

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jorgemncardoso wrote:
Hi guys, regarding Tony's Synclavier sounds and for those who have Arturia's Synclavier vst, i compiled last year all the original sounds for home by the sea, mama and some other. I posted them on the facebook timbre share page. There is also there all the original factory sounds for the Synclavier that the original creator has converted to Arturis's format.

Here's the sounds I posted along with a small file demo of each:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jrvntjy6fycme49/AADePP6WGQp6swxterd_cqOna?dl=0


I already downloaded your excellent compilation jorgemncardoso from the FB page. Cheers.
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Geoff Flynn
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Joined: 04 Jun 2016
Posts: 145

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NormC wrote:
What does Tony use for Abacab? I hear at least three sounds. An organ and a couple leads.


You are right, Prophet 10 organ and a couple of ARP Quadra Leads. This what I concluded when I owned an ARP Quadra and Prophet 10 many years ago....

Abacab - main riff - after many attempts and playing along with the original album recording I have concluded that the sound is Poly Synth section sawtooth using both 8' and 4' oscillators ( confirmed on Three Sides Live DVD ) with VCF ADSR at around 75% played through on-board phaser and then routed through fuzz box - Bass section must be turned off to access lowest poly octave
Abacab - short version middle bit - lead synth sawtooth with fast portamento - then reverts to poly synth when twinned with lead guitar part

The ARP Poly Section uses octave divide down technology and is a basically a single oscillator per note, polyphonic sawtooth Filter wide open sound. Add a small amount of fuzz or overdrive to taste. So you should be able to get an acceptable sound from most synths.

For the Kronos, I edited the Fast Synth 'Addicted To Love' program to try and ge the Invisible Touch Tour sound which is different from the studio version. So a good place to start.

For the organ I use samples from the Prophet 10. Sound basically starts with a sawtooth string sound, then the Filter is closed until the sound becomes warmer and then resonance is increased until the sound becomes more hollow. Then Prophet 10 onboard EQ section is used to boost the mid frequencies. I've been able to recreate the sound to an acceptable level on Arturia Prophet V using above recipe. Need to add chorus to fatten sound further.

There is an organ on the Oasys called P5 Ribbon Organ which is OK in a live mix. But I can't find it on the Kronos.

Good luck.
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NormC
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Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. I am OK with not having the perfect replication. As a cover player it will be obvious I am no Tony Banks, lol. For my own pleasure though I like it to at least be recognizable as the same song.
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mocando
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Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 1241
Location: Panama City, Panama

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoff Flynn wrote:
NormC wrote:
What does Tony use for Abacab? I hear at least three sounds. An organ and a couple leads.


You are right, Prophet 10 organ and a couple of ARP Quadra Leads. This what I concluded when I owned an ARP Quadra and Prophet 10 many years ago....

Abacab - main riff - after many attempts and playing along with the original album recording I have concluded that the sound is Poly Synth section sawtooth using both 8' and 4' oscillators ( confirmed on Three Sides Live DVD ) with VCF ADSR at around 75% played through on-board phaser and then routed through fuzz box - Bass section must be turned off to access lowest poly octave
Abacab - short version middle bit - lead synth sawtooth with fast portamento - then reverts to poly synth when twinned with lead guitar part

The ARP Poly Section uses octave divide down technology and is a basically a single oscillator per note, polyphonic sawtooth Filter wide open sound. Add a small amount of fuzz or overdrive to taste. So you should be able to get an acceptable sound from most synths.

For the Kronos, I edited the Fast Synth 'Addicted To Love' program to try and ge the Invisible Touch Tour sound which is different from the studio version. So a good place to start.

For the organ I use samples from the Prophet 10. Sound basically starts with a sawtooth string sound, then the Filter is closed until the sound becomes warmer and then resonance is increased until the sound becomes more hollow. Then Prophet 10 onboard EQ section is used to boost the mid frequencies. I've been able to recreate the sound to an acceptable level on Arturia Prophet V using above recipe. Need to add chorus to fatten sound further.

There is an organ on the Oasys called P5 Ribbon Organ which is OK in a live mix. But I can't find it on the Kronos.

Good luck.


Wow, I guess that the lead difference is so subtle, that I can't really get it. Can you please point me to the minute:second position in this video when the lead changes, so I can tell what I need to pay attention to?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOK1Y4GJnMc

Many thanks

Martin
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Korg Gear: Wavestation
Korg Software: KLC Wavestation, iWavestation for iPad
Non Korg: M-Audio Code 61 MIDI Controller, Nektar GX49 MIDI Controller
Music Computing: 16in Macbook Pro with Touch Bar Mid 2019, i9 32GB RAM 2TB Flash, MacOS Catalina - 2019 iPad Air 64GB
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Geoff Flynn
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Joined: 04 Jun 2016
Posts: 145

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mocando wrote:


Wow, I guess that the lead difference is so subtle, that I can't really get it. Can you please point me to the minute:second position in this video when the lead changes, so I can tell what I need to pay attention to?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOK1Y4GJnMc

Many thanks

Martin


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zLz8G6ZiuU

2:24 on the album.

It's hard to be definitive regarding the live performance because of how the Quadra works. If you choose to play the main lead riff on the duophonic lead synth, you can't play the three notes played at 4:37 in the video you posted.....(which BTW became five notes on the Invisible Touch Tour).

So he must be using the Poly Synth, which doesn't have portamento - but then you can't play the bit at 2:57 on your vid using the fast portamento as in the studio version.

So he either used Poly Synth all the way through and didn't use portamento at all......or he switched programs to the Synth Lead for the fast portamento part of the song.....which is what I do.

There is a third option which combines Poly and lead Synth sections so you can play more than two notes and still get a sort of portamento sound somewhere in the mix. But switching programs is my preferred way of playing Abacab.

Banks never seemed to do anything simple.

Cheers.
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mocando
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Joined: 21 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoff Flynn wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zLz8G6ZiuU

2:24 on the album.

It's hard to be definitive regarding the live performance because of how the Quadra works. If you choose to play the main lead riff on the duophonic lead synth, you can't play the three notes played at 4:37 in the video you posted.....(which BTW became five notes on the Invisible Touch Tour).

So he must be using the Poly Synth, which doesn't have portamento - but then you can't play the bit at 2:57 on your vid using the fast portamento as in the studio version.

So he either used Poly Synth all the way through and didn't use portamento at all......or he switched programs to the Synth Lead for the fast portamento part of the song.....which is what I do.

There is a third option which combines Poly and lead Synth sections so you can play more than two notes and still get a sort of portamento sound somewhere in the mix. But switching programs is my preferred way of playing Abacab.

Cheers.


Thanks. Excellent info.

Quote:
Banks never seemed to do anything simple.


Tell me about it Rolling Eyes
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Martin Ocando

Korg Gear: Wavestation
Korg Software: KLC Wavestation, iWavestation for iPad
Non Korg: M-Audio Code 61 MIDI Controller, Nektar GX49 MIDI Controller
Music Computing: 16in Macbook Pro with Touch Bar Mid 2019, i9 32GB RAM 2TB Flash, MacOS Catalina - 2019 iPad Air 64GB
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alanjpearson
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Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 283

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mocando wrote:
NormC wrote:
What does Tony use for Abacab? I hear at least three sounds. An organ and a couple leads.


The Organ comes from the Prophet. The Arturia Prophet V have a great patch for a Pipe organ, that sounds almost exactly the same. Still need a bit of equalization to dumb down the high frequencies a bit, but is almost perfect. And for the lead, it comes from the mighty ARP Quadra. BTW, I think that the two different leads that you hear, is the same Quadra lead played either single hand or dual hand (one octave apart), so it sounds fatter, but is the same sound.

Sadly there is no easy way to get that lead without a Quadra emulation. For that you have two options:

1. There is a user made instrument (ensemble) for Native Instrument's Reaktor, which works great. The lead sounds very nice and close to the original, although not perfect, and it has a weird vibrato on sustain, that is not in the original, so I need to tweak it up a bit.
or
2. SynthMagic Sound of the Quadra. This is the industry standard in ARP Quadra VST's. Sadly is very expensive, and you need Native Instrument's Kontakt, so you'll end up spending a lot of money on it.

I recommend option 1 of you are on a tight budget, but for option 2, there are even specially created Genesis specific patches, Abacab included, for it, so is the way to go if you can afford it.


Not true - the Verghese ProSoloist Rack + has Quadra emulation in it.
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GEM Promega 2, Roland AX Synth, Roland Fantom FA76, Roland Fantom XR, Verghese ProSoloist Rack, ARP Prosoloist, Mellotron 4000D, Yamaha CP70B, Yamaha A4000, EMU Proteus Custom
Why Aye Man!

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