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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:02 am Post subject: |
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fcoulter wrote: | Do you mean ever, or at NAMM 2017?
If you mean NAMM 2017, only a sucker would bet against you. First, Korg's already made their announcements. Second, without someone else competing with the Kronos, there is no reason for Korg to do anything other than incremental improvements. |
Tough call. Apparently there's an outstanding announcement, courtesy of mr Hotop.
And, depending on how you look at it, the MPC Live/X is competition up to a point. Granted, it doesn't do all the synthesis engines, but it does a lot of what the Kronos does, and some other things besides.
fcoulter wrote: | If you mean ever, then the problem would be collecting the bet. You will never collect the money from me if I bet you because I can always say "wait for next year." The only money that will ever transfer is when (if) Korg does do something that qualifies. At that point, you'll owe me.
I suppose that if Korg discontinues the Kronos and doesn't replace it within a year or two, then you'd have a good argument that you won. But that would take years. (How many of the new spectrum series Kronos can Korg sell?) |
I smell an opportunity for a barroom bookmaker. |
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synthguy Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Posts: 661
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:37 am Post subject: |
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EvilDragon wrote: | synthguy wrote: | (memo to EvilDragon, use what works) |
Of course, that's a given, man! When TR-Rack doesn't work (and I really use it for those lush pads and motion synths, since that's what it's best for), I have... FS1R, K5000R, Microwave I, JD-990, MKS-70, Blofeld, N1R, PC3K8... and a heap of VSTi... and some of those VSTi do hardsync better than any hardware VA
As for PWM aliasing on Roland's SN synth... remember this thread? http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=48093 |
Hmm... a nearly three year old thread. Last post in August 2014. I can see that debate is still on fire.
I dunno, maybe Roland did some updating of their synths since then, reprogrammed their patches to use the better pulse waves or something. I can't say I really noticed anything ugly except as I posted, and I had to isolate an initialized Tone.
I must add that if this is your criteria of unacceptable, I'd have to include some renown and still desirable synths in the discard pile, like the JP-8000, KORG Z1, some of Yamaha's DX synths, Casio CZs, some of the sought after Fairlights and Synclaviers, a bunch of the Ensoniqs which are still showing up on albums on rare occasion... maybe even that JD-990? I seem to recall almost every digital synth and sampler exhibiting aliasing at non-supersonic range in Keyboard reviews, so... what? Dump everything prior to the year 2005 or later because it might not sound pretty at the top of the piano range? You first.
Quote: | (And now as I read additionally, looks like PWM aliasing happens on waveforms nicked from Gaia (and MUCH earlier than G#8 - also is this with C4 being middle C or?), which were all (sic) sampled. Why would Roland do such a ghastly decision and depreciate their more expensive boards with stuff from their cheaper range that is just not nearly as good is beyond me... doing PWM and supersaw with samples is just borderline insulting IMHO.) |
Well, let's assume that Roland has no modeled anything in their SN synth lineup. My rather lengthy essay on that subject is
So?
Suppose Roland has resorted to some sort of software shenanigans to accomplish pulse width modulation and other waveshaping. Wavetables or whatever you care to mention. The question is, if the result sounds the same as oscillator modeling, behaves the same as modeling, programs the same as modeling, plays and records the same as modeling, what difference does it make? If I can select rectangle waves of whatever duty cycle I want to program Oberheim, ARP, CS-80 or Jupiter patches, something I can't do on a rompler, is the point to make a patch the way I want so I can make music I want with it? Or to insist on a certain method of synthesis to do it? Or to use it as an argument bullet point in a partisan fashion?
Let me tell you what annoys me. I played a KingKORG last year, and was enjoying the sound of the beastie, when I played some chords and heard the jarring sound of oscillators beginning in sync at the start of the notes. That's a sound that has nothing to do with key ranges to avoid unpleasantries, it's every note, like a rompler. Hmm... not cool. I know the KK isn't a rompler because it has PWM and hard sync OSCs. I poked around and couldn't find the oscillator waveform start parameter. I decided to go home and download the manual and... darn if it doesn't say a word about it, as if is used nothing but free running oscillators. I googled around and couldn't find any mention online about it. I wondered if maybe it's a certain oscillator type or something, but I'm pretty sure the saw wave is generic. I wondered if the machine I plonked on came from the factory misconfigured or something. Then I caught a YT demo of it doing the same thing. I'm not sure what to make of that, but one thing I'm not going to do is go on message board crusades about it because I don't need one, and those that do have one, it evidently doesn't bother them. So why should I? I think this is the right attitude.
It's one thing to say that you prefer a KORG sound or a Prophet or Nord sound or like Yamaha's AWM2 sample playback engine which makes Kurz's VAST technology sound like mp3s. But to say that a family of musical instruments is no good because you don't like their method of synthesis in the face of some superb musical examples, sounds like you're insisting "I'm biased and I don't care."
Which, awesome, I don't either. I guess we can bury this horse now.
I think what everyone can agree on is that making music with our chosen toys is what matters. And being able to expand our toybox with new toys this year would be awesome. Maybe we should talk about that instead. _________________ PRAY FOR THIS PLANET!! |
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SeedyLee Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 1370 Location: Perth, Australia
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Kevin Nolan wrote: | Timo wrote: | Kevin Nolan wrote: | But rest assured - you will not see a new OASYS or Kronos from Korg - as said - they literally have no development plan for that, the world is not waiting for it, and the world will not buy it if released.
blah blah blah...
In short, Kronos .... it's a dead paradigm and Korg are not committing to the future of the "Workstation" |
Absolute waffle, and extremely short sighted.
Workstations can and will evolve, I'm sure you will see. ...As soon as they gain an internet connection and an app-based ecosystem along with cloud storage. That would be my vision for a future workstation, and it's entirely valid.
Kevin, you speak merely for yourself. Do not speak on behalf of others, you are not entitled to do so. |
Back on topic - there will be no workstation surprises in NAMM 2017 from Korg. I'm even happy to wager $10 with anyone here that there well be no more workstations from Korg with radical developments (all the suggested developments here are already in Gadget and a thousand apps costing $3.99) |
I hope you're wrong, Kevin. Despite having a pretty beefy computer and software capable of driving 128 channels of MIDI, VSTs and 28 hardware audio tracks, I still turn to my Kronos for composing. There's a lot of reasons, but mostly it just works, it's rock solid (comparatively speaking), the timing and latency are better than any PC system - and it's simply more inspiring.
DAWs are great for mixing and editing, not so great as an expressive musical instrument. _________________ Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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SeedyLee Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 1370 Location: Perth, Australia
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Kong doesn't need to compete with other manufacturers or paradigms: they have a loyal fanbase of existing workstation users who are constantly looking to upgrade. They have already invested the R&D in a scalable platform that can be easily extended.
All they need to do is bring out another Kronos with more memory and a faster processor, and people will flock to it.
Apple have basically been doing the same thing with the iPhone for years now - through incremental improvements to hardware and software, they have a constant revenue stream from existing users. They don't need to necessarily grow their market share to turn a decent profit. _________________ Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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Jan1 Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 765
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Roland also is teasing with 'something' that has 88 keys as evidenced by these pictures posted by an alert viewer of Roland's 360 test stream on GS:
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afr Senior Member
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 315
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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looks like a new RD piano
Last edited by afr on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fcoulter Senior Member
Joined: 31 Jul 2015 Posts: 271 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Koekepan wrote: | Apparently there's an outstanding announcement, courtesy of mr Hotop.
And, depending on how you look at it, the MPC Live/X is competition up to a point. Granted, it doesn't do all the synthesis engines, but it does a lot of what the Kronos does, and some other things besides. |
I suppose the possibility of an outstanding announcement may make the bet viable, but I'd want odds, not just straight money. Even then, I don't see the advantage for Korg to significantly up their game at this point.
As for the MPC Live/X, I'm kinda wedded to those black and white switches at the front of the box. On the other hand, for people more flexible than me, it might be great. _________________ Fred
Korg: Kronos2 88
Other: Tyros 5 76, DGX-650, YPT-320, Fretted Clavichord, Upright Piano, DX-7, SY-99, eMu MPS (last three in attic)
RCM Certificates: Advanced Rudiments |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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The AKAI Live and X have MIDI ports, and host USB as well, so you could hook up your Quneo, Rise, Linnstrument or whatever, and if you want an external sound source, push it to your Blofeld, Virus or monster stack of Volcas.
Maybe KORG will be selling a limited run of Volca-sized hardware versions of their Gadgets? And a rack to hold them in? Be still, my beating heart. |
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Jan1 Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 765
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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afr wrote: | looks like a new RD piano |
When I compared it to a picture of the VR-09 I could not help but notice a resemblance between the two. |
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Bachus Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Jan1 wrote: | Roland also is teasing with 'something' that has 88 keys as evidenced by these pictures posted by an alert viewer of Roland's 360 test stream on GS:
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Could be a new fantom.. _________________ Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
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wma Full Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2013 Posts: 127
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Bachus wrote: | Jan1 wrote: | Roland also is teasing with 'something' that has 88 keys as evidenced by these pictures posted by an alert viewer of Roland's 360 test stream on GS:
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Could be a new fantom.. |
yep, could be a flagship combining hybrid synth w/ stage piano
the rd800 had price drope for some time, and at the left of the keyboards there's a joystick and above it looks as two wheels
and it has 8 knobs & multiple displays , more than two, maybe touch screens
it's a flagship keyboards, workstation |
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Bertotti Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 Posts: 3384 Location: Middle of nowhere
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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I have been hopeful some of the big synth guys would team with Roli and have that seabird style interface and a Kronos style workstation combined. I can dream. |
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gjvti Senior Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2009 Posts: 327 Location: Riga, Latvia
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Bertotti wrote: | I have been hopeful some of the big synth guys would team with Roli and have that seabird style interface and a Kronos style workstation combined. I can dream. | oh, yes, but honestly i would still very much prefer separate desktop module/desktop/tablet so i can choose what type of controller i need for particular performance. |
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Bachus Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Bertotti wrote: | I have been hopeful some of the big synth guys would team with Roli and have that seabird style interface and a Kronos style workstation combined. I can dream. |
Isnt the Roli interface highly overrated for a trained piano player.... i could not get used to it... however i think i would like a keybed with touchsensitive keysurface, it should yield near to the same results and still have the action we are used to... _________________ Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
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Bertotti Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 Posts: 3384 Location: Middle of nowhere
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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gjvti wrote: | Bertotti wrote: | I have been hopeful some of the big synth guys would team with Roli and have that seabird style interface and a Kronos style workstation combined. I can dream. | oh, yes, but honestly i would still very much prefer separate desktop module/desktop/tablet so i can choose what type of controller i need for particular performance. |
That would be perfectly fine with me as well! |
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