Korg Forums Forum Index Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Behringer has a new synth
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 5, 6, 7 ... 14, 15, 16  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Latest News
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
amit
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 825
Location: New Delhi, India

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since were on a roll,
let me chime in with few cents worth of post.

I spent around 2-2.5 years with some excellent developers(an Experienced Physicist/Chip Designer/Acoustic Modeling Guru and anther robotics guru on a Virtual Guitar Amp Suite, which unfortunately had to take a detour due to some serious health issues with the Main Developer and well as my health issues. (This is before I even got kronos etc). It still is only guitar plugin I use, and May people

Can Digital Sound Same as Analog : Yes
Can Digital Feel Same Analog : Subjective.
Can Digital Truly Replace the Vintage Analog: IMO: NO

Here's why:
From a Players Perspective : An Instrument is more than a machine, Its an
action/reaction relationship, it becomes an extension of your body, meaning it reacts/responds to your input an a particular way (muscle memory), you build a relation with it which leads to your expression with it. How you gel with it and how you express with it.It's both physical and mental.

1: With Digital VM/VA:Each and every instance is exactly the same, there is no age variance, there is no tolerance variance, there is no uniqueness to it as a unit.Within Parameters, They all sound exactly the same (two same guitar amp models or two same synth plugins)

2: In Vintage analog (I am using term vintage analog, as today's electronics components are of much higher standard /accuracy).
If you buy two same analog synths, their sound would be in same ball park, but may not exactly be the same at same control values. Over time each one starts to exhibit their own character, also usually their components have a much higher tolerance zone (10-15%). Thus one of them gets skewed towards some extreme and it gets it own character. For example take the capacitors, the active components of filter circuits (along with resistor and inductors). One leaky capacitor could alter the tonal response drastically (especially between stages). These are Random things and impossible to predict or model.

Yes, We can model everything perfectly, but it's these unwanted entities that sometime impart their character (new or over time) that make the true analog, what they are. Listeners may not be able to tell a difference, but the players can, and it can affect their playing.

3: Digital Models at Best are the Snapshots of the Analog in it's Best/Prime. They do not suffer from component failure or variance. This they will do the same job day in and day out and react the same, some might call that lifeless or too static/stale, but that is what they are , they usually don't have their own life, they are going to sound exactly the same today and 20 years from now.
Like someone pointed earlier, they are too accurate and they will always be that accurate.

While we can debate analog vs digital : As we have played both and can luckily tell the playing difference and luckily/unluckily can affect our playing to a certain degree (I can for guitar amps).

Any musician born in last 10-12 years and playing only digital could be as expressive or more) with their Virtual Gear, one who does not know the another, would not crave for that feeling.

Does that Make Analog Bad or Digital Bad : IMO, NO, Neither. Treat them as and for what they are (different) and there will be nothing holding you back.
Use whatever that gets you going. If you need that exact Marshall Sound and Feel, get a Marshall amp, Same is with the Synths and anything else. If you feel the VA is not cutting it for you, get the Analog, "It's all about you (us), The instrument and what you can do with it". What applies/works for me may not apply for you.

As far as listeners are concerned, it's not much of an issue. All they care of is what (the Music) you make out of the tools you have; neither the tools you have nor how you do it (analog or VA) as long it's good, it's good.
_________________
DX7-MOD-7 Patches | Korg Related Content
iPad Pro 12.9,MBP
Korg (Kronos 2, PA600,WavestateVolcaFM), Moog Subsequent 37, Waldorf Pulse 2, ,Novation (Peak, Circuit), Roland GR55, Roli Rise 49, Boog Model D Novation Sl 49, Launchpad Pro, Ableton Push 2 + Suite,Yamaha DTX Multi 12, Akai EWI USB, Nano key Studio, Arturia(BeatStep Pro,DrumBrute,Keystep),StryMon(Big Sky,Timeline), Mooer Ocean Machine, Zoom MS-70CDR,MXR Carbon Copy Deluxe, MicroKontrol,KLC, Korg DS-1H, Korg EXP-2,Roland DP-10, Nanopad 2, TEcontrol BBC2, Soundcraft Signatrure 22 MTK, Yamaha MG10XU,UltraG DI,Eris E5 .. List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
gjvti
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 327
Location: Riga, Latvia

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amit wrote:
...
1: With Digital VM/VA:Each and every instance is exactly the same, there is no age variance, there is no tolerance variance, there is no uniqueness to it as a unit.Within Parameters, They all sound exactly the same (two same guitar amp models or two same synth plugins)...

Go and play Roli Equator (Digital) with full expressiveness on and try to sound exactly the same each time Wink

But in general I personally prefer that I have control how much that 'same' is so I don't care if it is digital or analogue - I care about how close I can get it where I want to go and in the end all depends on implementation of functionality and control and digital vs analogue becomes irrelevant.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Gerardi
Platinum Member


Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 534
Location: Savannah, GA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan1 wrote:
In the meantime, vol.3 of the teaser series is online, and indeed, it is a polyphonic analog.
And it has a four octave keybed.


Yup. And that 4-octave keybed makes it for me, another useless analog polysynth.

..Joe
_________________
Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amit wrote:


Any musician born in last 10-12 years and playing only digital could be as expressive or more) with their Virtual Gear, one who does not know the another, would not crave for that feeling.




That's not the case. The Stradivarius example is perfect here. Assuming a 12 year old prodigy, can they be as expressive on a 200 Euro Thomann Violin as on a Stradivarius? No - because there are characterises - real acoustic characteristics with the Strad that are not in the cheap violin. It has nothing to do with opinion or "only what you grew up with". The points you make are real factors too accepted - but not the only factors - real differences also exist across instruments - the Strad is actually, physically, superior in allowing talented musicians to express themselves better - literally.

In like fashion - there are junk analogue synths but also exquisite analogue synths. The Minimoog has, literally, a better sound than the Moog LittlePhatty. That's not an opinion, it's actually the case. Nothing to stop someone create a world wide hit, pr perform an extraordinary solo on the LittlePhatty - but it's still not as good an instrument as the Minimoog. The same for tube distortion effects, the Hammond B3 above all other organs, the Steinway over the Yamaha grand piano, and so on. These are literal, objective, measurable and real differences.

Similarly - the range of nuanced expression on a Minimoog is literally superior to a Virus TI. the Virus can do many things the Minimoog can - and indeed many the Minimoog can't and isn't that the the same argument validated - nobody would ever argue that a Minimoog could produce an 80 voice supersaw sound. But - for solo work - the Minimoog is extraordinarily superior.

It's not all about opinion. There are real, tangible differences between instruments.

Finally - your argument of reliability with analogue is moot - the Andromeda A6 has all of its analogue circuits on ASIC chips, while the likes of the DSI analogue synths are similarly composed of integrated circuits with extraordinary reliability (and in any case digital electronic synthesizers 'age' with the best of them, I assure you).

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SanderXpander
Platinum Member


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not going to pick apart that post completely for the numerous things I disagree with, but I couldn't pass over the "Steinway over Yamaha grand" one, I will personally take a Yamaha grand over a Steinway most of the time. You really, really can't present these things like they are "facts".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So why does virtually every concert pianist use a Steinway, why is almost every classical recording on Steinway and why is every major piano competition run on Steinway?

In any case - these aren't my thoughts. They are what the world of music thinks / agrees upon. So tell me - what electric organ is preferred to the Hammond B3 in the world of rock, blues and jazz?

Which lead guitar is preferred to the Fender Strat - and why?

Please - DO answer these questions. Please do pick my points apart - I'm all ears!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SanderXpander
Platinum Member


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You certainly seem to know a lot about everyone else's opinion. And that despite your numerous disagreements with various professional musicians even on this forum.
It makes it a little useless to debate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It takes two to tango. I think everyone on this forum has strong opinions. I know "being certain" is not a popular trait these days, but - I genuinely welcome alternative view points - and have learnt bucket loads, and new ways of looking at things, from almost everyone on this forum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
EXer
Platinum Member


Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Location: France

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:
So why does virtually every concert pianist use a Steinway, why is almost every classical recording on Steinway and why is every major piano competition run on Steinway?


Because of Steinway's very aggressive marketing strategy.

The quality of their pianos is NOT the only reason.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Gerardi
Platinum Member


Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 534
Location: Savannah, GA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:
That's not the case. The Stradivarius example is perfect here.


Guarneri. Guarneri! I'm telling you- most soloists prefer a Guarneri del Gesu to a Stradavari. Ensemble players prefer Strads.

Laughing

..Joe
_________________
Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
moho



Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:
It takes two to tango. I think everyone on this forum has strong opinions. I know "being certain" is not a popular trait these days, but - I genuinely welcome alternative view points - and have learnt bucket loads, and new ways of looking at things, from almost everyone on this forum.


Well I am certain that Steinway is the best at sounding like a Steinway if you want the Steinway sound use a Steinway Rolling Eyes

Case in point I spent hours the other day trying to recreate a percussion sound, got close but in the end had to sample it as nothing sounds more like 2 bricks being hit together than 2 bricks being hit together.

All instruments have their place they are all the best at sounding like themselves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jeremykeys
Platinum Member


Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 3092
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Kevin Nolan"]

Which lead guitar is preferred to the Fender Strat - and why?

I wish I had more time for this one. I have and play 11 guitars including a Fender Strat. I think it depends on what sound you want and what style of music you're playing. And there are always exceptions. And then we also get into the era. Up until the mid 70's you didn't have as many choices as today. Nowadays a lot of people play Ibsnez for lead because the set ups are for super fast lead playing.
I'll get back later. Have to go to work now.
_________________
If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nitecrawler
Platinum Member


Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 971
Location: from a mile high to the the AZ desert

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="jeremykeys"]
Kevin Nolan wrote:


Which lead guitar is preferred to the Fender Strat - and why?

I wish I had more time for this one. I have and play 11 guitars including a Fender Strat. I think it depends on what sound you want and what style of music you're playing. And there are always exceptions. And then we also get into the era. Up until the mid 70's you didn't have as many choices as today. Nowadays a lot of people play Ibsnez for lead because the set ups are for super fast lead playing.
I'll get back later. Have to go to work now.


So true. And one should include the fact that amplification and effects are as, if not more, important to the overall guitar sound. Following that rational would mean Ibanez, PRS, Les Paul, Telecasters to name just a few have no lead playing capabilities. Sorry, I beg to differ. Cool
_________________
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=807494

Montage M7, Pa5x76, Nautilus, PA3Xle, Oasys 76, Mini-Moog, EMU Audity 2000, Motion Sound KBR 3D amp, Presonus and Reaper DAW W/Tannoy Reveal 501A powered monitors
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean - which would you prefer - an actual Fender Strat - or a Fender Strat copy ???

(we all know there are a few independent designs that are good)

The argument here is: You are all saying it's only a matter of opinion how good any instrument is; and I'm saying while opinion has a lot to do with it, there's another factor too - some instruments are better than others in their class / type.

Is a fender strat copy as good as a fender strat original, in the round ??


That's the argument.Everyone else here is saying the copy is as good as the original!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iowagold
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 323
Location: in an alternate time line

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:05 pm    Post subject: guitar to strat and why Reply with quote

guitar to strat and why

schecter, fast neck, emg's. in to eleven rack's
I have 3 schecters,
Damien frs (not crazy about the bats),

c1 frs, both those 2 have sustainiac Floyd rose and emg's

and an ea6 with fishman bridge and emgs.

I plan on adding on a studio series 5 string bass with emg's as well.

if you get a chance try a c1 frs... watch the sales at sweetwater and get it for under 1100.00.
they do sound nice. and will do clean to shred with a twist of the knob..
one of the cleanest guitar brands I have ever played.

craftsmanship on the schecter is real good for the bucks.
at least on the ones I have!!

I had a 1964 cream strat from back in the day... it was ok but the schecter is way faster for sure!!
_________________
my site klimaco.net
Current Gear: korg m3 expanded radias firewire 88 key Radias r on mat, korg radias r on mat on 61 key bed, Korg triton rack w 96mb ram scsi port, 5) korg RADIAS-R on big rack, korg kaossilator pro plus, 6) roland integra7, 4 Roland sc55, 2 roland sb55, 5) fostex 2016, behringer fx2000, 2) roland a800 pro, 2) roland a88 and 2) a49, roland juno, Doepfer MAQ 16/3, 2 Manikin Electronic Schrittmacher, most soft synths. cake walk all old and new versions.
3 schecter guitars, 3 elevenracks, most mxr effects, 2 zoom r24, avid pro tools 11.
MRT midi Breath Controller. 6 studio rooms.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Latest News All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 5, 6, 7 ... 14, 15, 16  Next
Page 6 of 16

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group