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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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 Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| jimknopf wrote: | After a first read of the Montage reference manual I can't detect anything super-deep far and wide. It has less than 200 pages plus a synth manual of ~80 pages, compared to more than 1100 pages of the Kronos reference manual. That alone tells something about how broad and deep the functionality of both synths is in comparison.
What I like: the Montage really seems to have a convincing performance oriented concept (in contrast to the cluttered Motif structure), with a lot of modulation sources and targets available. Else, apart from possible complex FM programming, there's certainly nothing too deep or mysterious involved at all, as far as I can tell after my first read. And I think that's positive news for possible Montage users: getting a somewhat shorter learning curve than with the complex multi-engine, sequencer-including and sample-ready Kronos OS.
Richard Devine's bold statement now even looks more silly to me than ever, after checking the Montage documentation today. |
I think getting top knotch results with the motion sequencer in your self created performances might be much much harder to archieve.. doing random things just might not work...
We will deffiantely have to see how this works out, the motion part certainly seems to be a powerfull tool, but will people actually use it if they cant get to their desired results quickly? |
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Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| jimknopf wrote: | After a first read of the Montage reference manual I can't detect anything super-deep far and wide. It has less than 200 pages plus a synth manual of ~80 pages, compared to more than 1100 pages of the Kronos reference manual. That alone tells something about how broad and deep the functionality of both synths is in comparison.
What I like: the Montage really seems to have a convincing performance oriented concept (in contrast to the cluttered Motif structure), with a lot of modulation sources and targets available. Else, apart from possible complex FM programming, there's certainly nothing too deep or mysterious involved at all, as far as I can tell after my first read. And I think that's positive news for possible Montage users: getting a somewhat shorter learning curve than with the complex multi-engine, sequencer-including and sample-ready Kronos OS.
Richard Devine's bold statement now even looks more silly to me than ever, after checking the Montage documentation today. |
God bless your intellect - that's all I say 
What I meant by it is what you flag - a very 'performance' orientated architecture.
But the size of the manual belies the number of parameters to edit in what is a new approach - and the number of inter-relations among them. Designing FM programs using 6 operators requires a lot of planning, using 8 will, in my opinion, deepen that. But with all of this motion sequencing and performance control, getting the best out of FM-X won't be easy, in my opinion. I think it will take a lot of reading and experimenting to know what you're doing - let me re-phrase - it's going to take me a lot of reading and experimenting to know what I'm doing. I do suspect a heavy learning-curve to get the best out of Montage.
Of course the sheer number of on board preset performances will help! |
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Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| jimknopf wrote: | After a first read of the Montage reference manual I can't detect anything super-deep far and wide. It has less than 200 pages plus a synth manual of ~80 pages, compared to more than 1100 pages of the Kronos reference manual. That alone tells something about how broad and deep the functionality of both synths is in comparison.
What I like: the Montage really seems to have a convincing performance oriented concept (in contrast to the cluttered Motif structure), with a lot of modulation sources and targets available. Else, apart from possible complex FM programming, there's certainly nothing too deep or mysterious involved at all, as far as I can tell after my first read. And I think that's positive news for possible Montage users: getting a somewhat shorter learning curve than with the complex multi-engine, sequencer-including and sample-ready Kronos OS.
Richard Devine's bold statement now even looks more silly to me than ever, after checking the Montage documentation today. |
God bless your intellect - that's all I say
What I meant by it is what you flag - a very 'performance' orientated architecture.
But the size of the manual belies the number of parameters to edit in what is a new approach - and the number of inter-relations among them. Designing FM programs using 6 operators requires a lot of planning, using 8 will, in my opinion, deepen that. But with all of this motion sequencing and performance control, getting the best out of FM-X won't be easy, in my opinion. I think it will take a lot of reading and experimenting to know what you're doing - let me re-phrase - it's going to take me a lot of reading and experimenting to know what I'm doing. I do suspect a heavy learning-curve to get the best out of Montage.
Of course the sheer number of on board preset performances will help! |
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rrricky rrrecordo
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 448
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:09 am Post subject: |
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Motif XF8 price dropped to a point where I jumped in yesterday. White, 2GB flash for a song.
I'm more interested in the workstation (a dying breed for Yamaha) versus the turn-a-throb-a-knob instant grat idea...
Had one of the first Motif XS6 in Canada so I know the sequencer and play effects inside out and upside down, very much like the final Atari Notator design but so far more stable. Love it and to have it fresh in the XF with all that flash is brilliant.
No desire for a brilliant Montage that won't document my ideas. That sucka is gonna trickle down soon enough. It has to.
_________________
Current Korg apparatus: MicroStation, MicroKorg, MicroSampler, WaveDrum, Trinity V3, M1REX, Wavestation SR, X5DR, Original Legacy Collection w/ MS-20 controller, iMS-20, DS-10 Plus x2, ELECTRIBE Rhythm Mk ll, iELECTRIBE, Kaossilator, padKONTROL, MicroKONTROL, NanoKey, NanoKontrol, Stage Echo SE-300 |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| rrricky rrrecordo wrote: | Motif XF8 price dropped to a point where I jumped in yesterday. White, 2GB flash for a song.
I'm more interested in the workstation (a dying breed for Yamaha) versus the turn-a-throb-a-knob instant grat idea...
Had one of the first Motif XS6 in Canada so I know the sequencer and play effects inside out and upside down, very much like the final Atari Notator design but so far more stable. Love it and to have it fresh in the XF with all that flash is brilliant.
No desire for a brilliant Montage that won't document my ideas. That sucka is gonna trickle down soon enough. It has to. |
Enjoy your Motif XF, there is still a lot to enjoy...
But what really got me nagging is the fact that you admit to be a workstation man, and you have a whole long list of Korg equipment, but the ultimate Workstation Kronos is not on that list? |
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Melodialworks Music
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Posts: 522
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| rrricky rrrecordo wrote: | | turn-a-throb-a-knob |
Best name ever! |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Bachus wrote: | | rrricky rrrecordo wrote: | Motif XF8 price dropped to a point where I jumped in yesterday. White, 2GB flash for a song.
I'm more interested in the workstation (a dying breed for Yamaha) versus the turn-a-throb-a-knob instant grat idea...
Had one of the first Motif XS6 in Canada so I know the sequencer and play effects inside out and upside down, very much like the final Atari Notator design but so far more stable. Love it and to have it fresh in the XF with all that flash is brilliant.
No desire for a brilliant Montage that won't document my ideas. That sucka is gonna trickle down soon enough. It has to. |
Enjoy your Motif XF, there is still a lot to enjoy...
But what really got me nagging is the fact that you admit to be a workstation man, and you have a whole long list of Korg equipment, but the ultimate Workstation Kronos is not on that list? |
ricky has 19 synth engines plus the Motif. We only have 9 
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Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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rrricky rrrecordo
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 448
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:02 am Post subject: |
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Haha Greg, way past the 19 now Kijiji has been a blessing (and my financial undoing) good to see you still about, man
_________________
Current Korg apparatus: MicroStation, MicroKorg, MicroSampler, WaveDrum, Trinity V3, M1REX, Wavestation SR, X5DR, Original Legacy Collection w/ MS-20 controller, iMS-20, DS-10 Plus x2, ELECTRIBE Rhythm Mk ll, iELECTRIBE, Kaossilator, padKONTROL, MicroKONTROL, NanoKey, NanoKontrol, Stage Echo SE-300 |
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rrricky rrrecordo
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 448
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| Bachus wrote: | | rrricky rrrecordo wrote: | Motif XF8 price dropped to a point where I jumped in yesterday. White, 2GB flash for a song.
I'm more interested in the workstation (a dying breed for Yamaha) versus the turn-a-throb-a-knob instant grat idea...
Had one of the first Motif XS6 in Canada so I know the sequencer and play effects inside out and upside down, very much like the final Atari Notator design but so far more stable. Love it and to have it fresh in the XF with all that flash is brilliant.
No desire for a brilliant Montage that won't document my ideas. That sucka is gonna trickle down soon enough. It has to. |
Enjoy your Motif XF, there is still a lot to enjoy...
But what really got me nagging is the fact that you admit to be a workstation man, and you have a whole long list of Korg equipment, but the ultimate Workstation Kronos is not on that list? |
Hey Bachus, the Kronos never felt right to me. The XF8 is a solid steel tank and I know the innards inside out. USB up an ASUS PT2001 and run all my Arturia AAS Spectrasonics Sonic Charge Garritan NI etc etc and of course Pianoteq and yep at least 9 engines on a generous touchscreen, compact reliable so still no desire for Kronos. Love the new Korg stuff though, must update my sig
_________________
Current Korg apparatus: MicroStation, MicroKorg, MicroSampler, WaveDrum, Trinity V3, M1REX, Wavestation SR, X5DR, Original Legacy Collection w/ MS-20 controller, iMS-20, DS-10 Plus x2, ELECTRIBE Rhythm Mk ll, iELECTRIBE, Kaossilator, padKONTROL, MicroKONTROL, NanoKey, NanoKontrol, Stage Echo SE-300 |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| rrricky rrrecordo wrote: | | Haha Greg, way past the 19 now Kijiji has been a blessing (and my financial undoing) good to see you still about, man |
great to post back and forth again. We had lots of yucks way back.
I heard Yamaha was giving rebates ( to dealers ?) to blow out the XF inventory.
We have a few XF's on our local craigsList so used prices are tumbling.
Good times
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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rrricky rrrecordo
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 448
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | rrricky rrrecordo wrote: | | Haha Greg, way past the 19 now Kijiji has been a blessing (and my financial undoing) good to see you still about, man |
great to post back and forth again. We had lots of yucks way back.
I heard Yamaha was giving rebates ( to dealers ?) to blow out the XF inventory.
We have a few XF's on our local craigsList so used prices are tumbling.
Good times |
Yes good times indeed. Mine is "brand new" old stock for 3100 Canadian (1.97 USD). Flash boards are bonus but pain to populate with old X0A files, that's my Achilles heel with XF, can't find used XFs much up here but an excess of XS up for grabs, gonna keep mine
_________________
Current Korg apparatus: MicroStation, MicroKorg, MicroSampler, WaveDrum, Trinity V3, M1REX, Wavestation SR, X5DR, Original Legacy Collection w/ MS-20 controller, iMS-20, DS-10 Plus x2, ELECTRIBE Rhythm Mk ll, iELECTRIBE, Kaossilator, padKONTROL, MicroKONTROL, NanoKey, NanoKontrol, Stage Echo SE-300 |
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iowagold
Approved Merchant
Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 323
Location: in an alternate time line
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:43 pm Post subject: so does the new unit cover the old CS 80?? |
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so does the new unit cover the old analog CS 80??
the small unit they had last year or the year before sort of had a few sounds....
kinda junky cheap small compared with the cs80..
just wondering if this new unit had all the old analog Yamaha sounds in there... not as samples but in the engine..
then they would have something I would be interested in...
does any one have a good demo with the sounds mixed or patched in a mixer to youtube direct?? the naam stuff had all the back ground noise... hard to hear what it really sounds like with headphones on.....
_________________
my site klimaco.net
Current Gear: korg m3 expanded radias firewire 88 key Radias r on mat, korg radias r on mat on 61 key bed, Korg triton rack w 96mb ram scsi port, 5) korg RADIAS-R on big rack, korg kaossilator pro plus, 6) roland integra7, 4 Roland sc55, 2 roland sb55, 5) fostex 2016, behringer fx2000, 2) roland a800 pro, 2) roland a88 and 2) a49, roland juno, Doepfer MAQ 16/3, 2 Manikin Electronic Schrittmacher, most soft synths. cake walk all old and new versions.
3 schecter guitars, 3 elevenracks, most mxr effects, 2 zoom r24, avid pro tools 11.
MRT midi Breath Controller. 6 studio rooms. |
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iowagold
Approved Merchant
Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 323
Location: in an alternate time line
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:59 pm Post subject: here is a better set of demo |
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here is a better set of demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q8YkNgnHZs
there was a few cs sounds....
the pipe organ sounded ok.
looks like the 7 sits at 3500.00 usd as of 05-01-2016 as a pre order.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Montage7
might be able to play with one at gear fest...
check out this demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo4jpJFMvqQ
better sounds on this demo.
slip on the headphones!!
_________________
my site klimaco.net
Current Gear: korg m3 expanded radias firewire 88 key Radias r on mat, korg radias r on mat on 61 key bed, Korg triton rack w 96mb ram scsi port, 5) korg RADIAS-R on big rack, korg kaossilator pro plus, 6) roland integra7, 4 Roland sc55, 2 roland sb55, 5) fostex 2016, behringer fx2000, 2) roland a800 pro, 2) roland a88 and 2) a49, roland juno, Doepfer MAQ 16/3, 2 Manikin Electronic Schrittmacher, most soft synths. cake walk all old and new versions.
3 schecter guitars, 3 elevenracks, most mxr effects, 2 zoom r24, avid pro tools 11.
MRT midi Breath Controller. 6 studio rooms. |
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spaceman3
Platinum Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Posts: 520
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:44 am Post subject: |
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I have said the worst things about MONTAGE.
I take back about 75% of it.
It is an awesome machine.
I think Steves review was fairly acurate.
In my opinion i think the MONTAGE does edge out KRONOS here and there, but by the same token i think the KRONOS edges out MONTAGE here and there.
Both in their own way, the most powerfull digital synths ever created. |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| spaceman3 wrote: | I have said the worst things about MONTAGE.
I take back about 75% of it.
It is an awesome machine.
I think Steves review was fairly acurate.
In my opinion i think the MONTAGE does edge out KRONOS here and there, but by the same token i think the KRONOS edges out MONTAGE here and there.
Both in their own way, the most powerfull digital synths ever created. |
I think the review is pretty biased... |
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