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Kronos boot time is a feature)
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ahutnick
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Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 376

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW I would gladly play a gig using either the Forte or the Kronos as they are both very good sounding keyboards. The 88 key Forte is definitely a bit easier to move than the Kronos 88 for gigging. The Montage looks like they are bulky like the XF series. I think portability is important if you are gigging with your keyboard especially if you move your own keyboard and don't have a road crew.
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danmusician
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilDragon wrote:
Oh, sorry, is owning a Kronos a prerequisite to be able to discuss its shortcomings (and yes, 2 minutes of boot time IS a shortcoming, no matter how pink you want to paint it)? I didn't know that was a rule here.

I own other Korg gear, but for many reasons I find a Kurzweil to be a better MIDI controller (among other things) for my setup, so I didn't go for a Kronos. Does that make me so bad? Can anyone here even be mature enough to have a discussion without thinking "oh, there's that Kurzweil guy, moannnnn" and actually putting forward some thinking juice into it all?


I'm sorry, I just don't understand this. Why would anyone want to waste time reading and commenting on a board they don't even own or intend to purchase?

I had a K2500 fully loaded at my day job. The keybed was absolute crap. Counter weights kept snapping off of the keys. From the look of things at the local repair shop, a very common problem. I can't imagine wasting my time lurking on Kurzweil sites to trash Kurzweil gear.

Seriously, move along, please.
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ahutnick
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Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 376

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kronos like all other keyboards have had their problems. When I bought my Kronos new I had to send it back as there were several keys that were making loud clacking noises which is unacceptable. The earlier Kurzweil's were well known for their issues. My Forte keyboard works great no quality control issues at all. Very happy with both of them! Cool
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DeltaJockey
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Joined: 27 Jul 2015
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Location: East Gippsland, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a K1000 way back. Its keyboard was ok. Just ok. Back in the days when every Kurzweil was almost a prototype in production. Never stopped me making good music with it though. It was highly regarded in its day and was the best piece of gear in my kit! Along with my Atari ST and floppy disk of Hybrid Arts sequencing software Very Happy

But of course my Kronos's, well they are way ahead, even in the hardware design, and so they should be in this day and age. I understand the complexities of engineering design, and Korg have got 98% of it right in my opinion. Yes, worth the boot up wait for such a complex and sophisticated musical instrument operating system.
I recently sold my Roland FA08, which has a boot up time of 8 seconds in favour of my beloved Kronos!
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not aware of any other keyboards that boot from a hard drive either, (Oasys excepted), knowing how much more flexible the Kronos OS is for updates, and user re-initialisation. In a way the Kronos, almost brings the average musician into the development fold with the Korg engineers.

I guess, no matter what the manufacturers decide on, someone will not be happy about it, so I guess making most people happy most of the time is a great achievement!

Oh, and sorry guys, sadly, even though I play my Kronos's daily, meaning they get a lot of use....they are "studio" instruments and I also keep them clean Embarassed I have some clear plastic covers for them, when not in use, to keep the dust off. That way I can still show them off when they are not being used. To be honest, it's not the dust over all that bothers me, I have a thing about the grime on the keys themselves. When my fingers sweat, the dust gets kind of oily, and that bothers me when I play. I wonder if anyone else knows what I'm talking about?
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The companions I can't live without: Kronos2-88, Kawai Acoustic Grand, Kawai MP11SE, Yamaha Montage8,
Other important stuff: Kronos2-73, Integra7, Studiologic NC2X, Casio PX S3000, NI Komplete Ultimate 11, Sonuscore Elysion and Orchestra, Pianoteq, Experimenta Due.
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amit
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see for some live gigging musicians 2.5 seconds can feel like an eternity.
but the thing is you are considering a unit failure (reboot) and in that sense it's not much at all of a recovery time.

some people complain just to complain about any shortcomings they see, or to justify their decisions (however right or wrong they be).

one of my main computers takes a about 5 times more to boot (to get to a usable state). Yeah it's so 19th century, but it been working tirelessly (always on mostly 24/7) since 2010 is still snappy to work.

Ain't that the whole purpose of using the machines/computers?? To get the work done as efficiently as possible?? or is to start and shut off ??

You don't just switch on a jet plane and take off, you don't just turn on a racing car and get going at 100.

The point being some of the most efficient machines,don't necessarily exhibit their efficiency in starting up or shutting down,it's on the contrary usually the opposite.

IMO Kronos does best to do with its available resources, and so would the kruzweils and others.
If anything this only shows how much more kronos has to deal with. Smile

Sure it has it's issues/weaknesses like any other piece of gear on this planet, but that is how things have always been and always will be. If it's weaknesses matter to you more than it's strength, you are looking at the wrong product(for your use case) anyway.

Since we already are comparing apples and oranges in this thread:
how much time does any decent size vst/au plugin take to load? say omnisphere instances on 4 tracks and Kontakt libraries on another 4 tracks, perhaps a few guitar/bass amps plus va synth or two.
add to that your daw load time, your computer boot time. .. .. ...

I would not give any heed to one particular users views here, (not because he is not entitled to his opinions without owning the said gear) but because of his history (same username/avatar) at other products/forums expressing same displeasure with other products that he does not find conducive to his workflow. Nothing but the best.. ah well....to each their own .. yet not quite!
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EvilDragon
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danmusician wrote:
It's not sample loading that takes the time, it's the loading of the OS. There's a whole lot more going on in the Kronos. It's not just a rompler.


I don't quite think so. Linux is usually quite fast to load even on slower hardware. Kronos is loading a lot of individual sample snippets for its "ROM", that's what takes the most of the time, for sure. I'm sure this could also be verified somehow by sniffing data packets which are being read from the hard drive or somesuch...


Rest assured I have nothing against Kronos in principle (save for boot time). It's a marvellous board that sounds great! Played it on a lot of occasions, blew me off every time. And when/if Korg improves the boot time dramatically in one of future iterations, you can bet I'll be waiting in line ordering one right there and then. As it is now, IMHO, it's a board with great possibilities with one huge shortcoming that I just cannot get past by (and that is most definitely NOT a feature, despite some trying to justify that unsuccessfully). It's good to see there are others out there who agree that boot time is not a feature.


amit wrote:
you don't just turn on a racing car and get going at 100.


Haha, sure you do, in a way, if you have a Tesla Model S, goes to 100 KPH in 3.2 seconds. Now THAT is some wicked FAST boot time! Laughing Kronos looks like a racing car, has all the comfort and features of a city sedan, but has a Yugo engine inside, by comparison! And yes, it's amazing what Korg managed to extract from that Yugo engine - but it's taking it 2 minutes to reach 100 KPH!
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afr
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Joined: 07 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both Kronos & Forte

You are right, boot time on kronos is longer than on forte

But, when I want to compose music on Kronos in few seconds I can do it with the on board sequencer

With forte I have to use my PC start Cubase and so on

So, in the end I spend the same time

And with montage is the same story






EvilDragon wrote:
chini wrote:
but for whatever reason Korg have not provided similar performance on this score does it really matter in the grand scheme of things ?


To me and quite a few other people I've talked about this, yes it DOES matter.

aron wrote:
Evildragon,

Do you even own a Kronos or are you hear to constantly talk about Kurzweil?


Oh, sorry, is owning a Kronos a prerequisite to be able to discuss its shortcomings (and yes, 2 minutes of boot time IS a shortcoming, no matter how pink you want to paint it)? I didn't know that was a rule here.

I own other Korg gear, but for many reasons I find a Kurzweil to be a better MIDI controller (among other things) for my setup, so I didn't go for a Kronos. Does that make me so bad? Can anyone here even be mature enough to have a discussion without thinking "oh, there's that Kurzweil guy, moannnnn" and actually putting forward some thinking juice into it all?
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ando727
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Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 102

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a total noob, as I'm picking up my first Kronos tomorrow, but I was wondering does the Kronos have any kind of sleep or stand-by mode? If not, it seems like that might a good thing to incorporate into the design and should be pretty easy to do. Any other computer can do it. When you think of doing recordings or rehearsals and it's a bit stop/start but goes all day, it would be a godsend to be able to let it hibernate when you are taking a break, and then just wake it up and you're ready to rock. Gives the screen a rest too.

But maybe the Kronos already can do this? If it did though, I guess a lot of people would just leave it on all the time and wake it to play.
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ando727
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a total noob, as I'm picking up my first Kronos tomorrow, but I was wondering does the Kronos have any kind of sleep or stand-by mode? If not, it seems like that might a good thing to incorporate into the design and should be pretty easy to do. Any other computer can do it. When you think of doing recordings or rehearshals and it's a bit stop/start but goes all day, it would be a godsend to be able to let it hibernate when you are taking a break, and then just wake it up and you're ready to rock. Gives the screen a rest too.

But maybe the Kronos already can do this? If it did though, I guess a lot of people would just leave it on all the time and wake it to play.
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voip
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Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kronos does not have a sleep or hibernate facility, as such, although the Kronos X (and possibly original Kronos) has a motorised power switch that is automatically moved to the off position after a selectable period of inactivity (not sure the K2 has that). Mine is disabled.

I prefer to leave the keyboard on continuously for the whole period it's likely to be used, then it's ready for any musical ideas. It consumes around 30 watts, so relatively frugal, considering its capabilities. If I go to make a coffee, it stays on. If I go out, it gets turned off. When I return, it gets switched back on. By the time my coat is off and I'm settled ready to work again, the Kronos is ready to go.

As for finger sweat and dust, the Kronos stayed remarkably fresh and pristine-looking for far longer than I would have expected it to, especially the keys. Only now, after a few years, do I wipe the keys with a clean damp cloth, and run a fine brush with vacuum cleaner hose close by over the control surface and screen every few weeks and that's it.

.
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