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Missing fill to var option...
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Hal2001
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx Steve. That basic functionality is certainly essential. Hal
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Vex
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's only left for professional use - basic functionality Sad I'll hope twt they'll bring back fill to var options.
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iOpus
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Second update is here but no Fill to var. option and Global general lock controls. Question
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:29 pm    Post subject: Fill-Mode / Fill-to-Var Reply with quote

Hal2001 wrote:
Can you still do this on the Pa4x or does the "Smart Fill" keep you from doing that?


No, you can not do this on Pa4x, as SmartFill-Mode is not to adjust with various parameters as you did with Fill-Mode.

SmartFill-Mode only has three global parameters. With decision for
set up "current, target, or smart" it is unsuitable to be used individual and separately for each style in same manner as selectable fill-to-variations with previous models did.

Smart-Fill prevents flexibility because it is not a feature to be able to follow any variation with any fill on the fly.

PS: For me missing direct-access of sounds also prevents flexibility essential - i had with Pa2x/800/500 by "Auto-Select-Sound".
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Hal2001
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: Fill-Mode / Fill-to-Var Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:
Hal2001 wrote:
Can you still do this on the Pa4x or does the "Smart Fill" keep you from doing that?


No, you can not do this on Pa4x, as SmartFill-Mode is not to adjust with various parameters as you did with Fill-Mode.

SmartFill-Mode only has three global parameters. With decision for
set up "current, target, or smart" it is unsuitable to be used individual and separately for each style in same manner as selectable fill-to-variations with previous models did.

Smart-Fill prevents flexibility because it is not a feature to be able to follow any variation with any fill on the fly.


Thank you siebenhirter for your answer, yet it seems to conflict with a previous answer to my question, thus I'm confused again. Here was my original question and the previous answer.

Hal2001 wrote:
It's been over 4 years since I had my hands on a Pa3x. At that time, one of the features I liked was that I could pick any order of variation or fill, any number of times and if I wanted to hit the fill more than once, or hit one fill and then a different fill in succession, that was OK too. Being able to hit any sequence of variation/fill and change it up on impulse, made for real "live" sounding performance. I could follow any variation with any fill on the fly. Can you still do this on the Pa4x or does the "Smart Fill" keep you from doing that? I'm not totally clear on what the Smart Fill is and whether it prevents the above mentioned flexibility. Will I still be able to follow any variation with any fill on the fly? That would be a basic need for me on the Pa4x.


Hi Hal,

To your question...........Yes.....Simply turn off "Smart Fill....Press the desired Fill followed by the Variation of your choice.
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Thus, can I or can't I do what I described (even if I turn off Smart Fill? To make things worse, when I loaded the full pdf Pa4x User Manual and searched "Smart Fill" to find out the answer, Adobe said there is no Smart Fill text to be found in the User Manual. How can that be?
Hal
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Fill-Mode / Fill-to-Var Reply with quote

Hal2001 wrote:
Adobe said there is no Smart Fill text to be found in the User Manual

Hallo Hal,
do not believe Adobe, search manually you will find it on Page 68 (Globals).

Topic is "Fill-to-var". Maybe you never used and can not remember - this is a function of Pa3x-Fill-Mode, to use predefined PARAMETERS FOR EACH FILL-BUTTON OF EACH STYLE SEPARATELY TO AUTOMATICALLY SELECT ONE OF THE FOUR VARIATIONS AT THE END OF A FILL.

With Pa3x-Fill-Mode it is possible to use parameters to auto-select specified Variations for alternatively selection, when one of them is selected (V1&V2 … V3&V4).
With Pa3x-Fill-Mode also next higher/lower numbered Variation could be auto-selected (Var.Inc/Var.Dec) or auto-selected in cycle (Var.Up/Var.Down).
Last not least Pa3x-Fill-Mode (with parameters To Var.1…To Var.4) automatically selects one of the four available Style Variations at the end of the fill - SIMPLE DONE AUTO-FILLS WITH ONE-TOUCH-FILL-BUTTON - ADJUSTABLE SEPARATELEY FOR EACH STYLE - that is flexibility nothing in common with global "Smart-Fill-Mode" with unpredictable or few targets of variation "current, target, or smart".

With Pa4x "simply turn off SmartFill, Press the desired Fill followed by the Variation of your choice" you can not realize one of that Auto-Fill-Mode-Functions of Pa3x (Var.Inc/Var.Dec, Var.Up/Var.Down, V1&V2 … V3&V4,To Var.1…To Var.4), but simple done with pressing one Fill-Button of Pa3x.

Since on never knew or never used Auto-Fill-Mode-method of Pa3x can't lose something one never had - also think simply turn off SmartFill and pressing desired Fill followed by the Variation of ones choice is the same.
But it is not the same - lets do an example with Auto-Fill "On" and following preselections of one Style:
- decide to use Pa3x-Fill1-Button with parameter "V1&V2 "
- decide to use Pa3x-Fill2-Button with parameter "Var.Dec"
- decide to use Pa3x-Fill3-Button with parameter "Var.Inc"
- decide to use Pa3x-Fill4-Button with parameter "V3&V4".

Now think about what cause these parameters above in practice and
imagine how many flexible options it offers with simple one-touch-button-pressings of this fill-to-var-settings of Pa3x - and will see it is impossible to realize one of them with Pa4x.

PS: Only using Pa3x-Fill-Mode with parameter "Off" means to use Fill-Ins without flexibility like Pa4x does - wish/hope, to get Fill-Mode with next update for Pa4x
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Hal2001
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Fill-Mode / Fill-to-Var Reply with quote

Thank you siebenhirter for your great explanation. I would certainly want to have that flexibility option in the Pa4x now that I understand it better. Considering that Korg positions its product as a "Professional Arranger", having more fluid customization options would truly make the Pa4x worthy of being called such. Continuing to offer the "Fill-to-var"in addition to the "smart fill" would be my preferred way to go.
Hal
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Vex
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Fill-Mode / Fill-to-Var Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:

PS: For me missing direct-access of sounds also prevents flexibility essential - i had with Pa2x/800/500 by "Auto-Select-Sound".


Check at Pa4x User manual pages 764 and 765 Wink

This option you says's missing, is there ,as I understand that this is about that Wink


By the way, very good explanation to KORG why FILL TO VAR is essential to be back on PA4X. Wink
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Fill-Mode / Fill-to-Var Reply with quote

Vex wrote:
.(I am).. missing direct-access of sounds also prevents flexibility essential - i had with Pa2x/800/500 by "Auto-Select-Sound" --> ..
Check at Pa4x User manual pages 764 and 765 .. this option you says's missing, is there ,as I understand that this is about that ..

*
No - is not there, because there only automatically choosing Styles and Keyboard Sets is possible, but you could not use auto-select with direct-access of Sounds as you could do with Pa2x/800/500.
This previous model has the advantage the latest selected sound in a bank to be saved in globals - usable to be selected immediately when pressing the bank button during live performance.

An example (maybe Pa500) about flexibility with sounds:
- preselected last sounds button for "Bass" use Bank-buttons Bass, Synth, Special for differnt Bass-Sounds
- preselected last sounds (drumkits) for "Drums" use Bank-buttons Drum, User1, User2.
- in styleplay as often you want change and assign your preferred different sounds of bass-track selecting just with a single press of bank-buttons Bass, Synth or Special; additional to original-voice .
- in styleplay assign do the same with your preferred drumkit of drum-track or percussion-track selecting just with a single press of bank-buttons Drum, User1, User2
- to get original style sounds (of bass, drum, percussion-tracks) of recent style simple assign "Original Style Sounds" in Style Tracks view page.

This way that is flexibility in using different sounds for style-tracks without to change/duplicate/save original-style-settings.

Hope, next update will bring back AUTOSELECT-SOUNDS with bank-buttons to be more flexible in selecting sounds in direct-access (specially for styleplay).

In case using meaningless (empty) Sounds it is also easy to individual mute/unmute tracks with autoselect-sounds in stylemode.
*
For such flexible operations it once is required to preparate one or more autoselect-gbl-Files (saved as global-setup) for personal use. Do not use that setupfile, but tiny single gbl-file in root directory to be as fast rechargeable as REGISTRATION BANK of Yamaha - but to use more advantageous.
*
PS: it is similar to use auto-select-functions more flexible for performances (keyboard-settings in pa4x) with one-button-direct-access for preferred registrations saved for auto-select in globals.
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but you could not use auto-select with direct-access of Sounds as you could do with Pa2x/800/500.

This is a dangerous option (for SOUNDS) - it WAS a GLOBAL setting so what if you didn't want auto-select SOUND at some point during your song?
Selecting a SOUND bank will display the last sound you selected anyway (but, fortunately, NOT instantly select it) so all you need to do is single press the bank and then press the sound at the point you want to change. If you a playing a piece that is extremely busy (i.e. you really can't use your hands away from actual playing, then you need to use pedals or possibly a MIDI file backing track to change sounds for you.)

I understand that you see that this GLOBAL option is not in the newer models.

I change sounds all the time during playing - I set up and use STS, PERFORMANCE, SOUND - it's just a matter of setting them up conveniently to suit your playing needs.
These keyboards are so so so flexible and configurable.

Let's say you want to use 8 instant sounds whilst playing a style - build a bank of either sounds or performances with all 8 on the one page, plus you could add another 4 STS - the "page" will be there on your screen to instantly select the "sound" you need. You can even use pedals to control selection sequence or direct (EC5 FCB1010 etc....)

Quote:
in styleplay as often you want change and assign your preferred different sounds of bass-track selecting just with a single press of bank-buttons Bass, Synth or Special; additional to original-voice .


If you are suggesting that you want to change style parts with "auto-select" then what happens if you want to change ACC 1 to "piano" and then later in the piece change UPPER 2 to "rock piano" - they're both in the same bank so auto-select-sound is not going to work too well. Ah! wait a minute, you need registrations? That's really what PERFORMANCES and STSs are.

I cannot see Korg changing this as it has not been included for a long time (since PA2X) and I think that you are the only forum member to have complained about it. I would certainly hope they don't spend valuable development time on this which really is not a big issue and is so easily resolvable.

Quote:
In case using meaningless (empty) Sounds it is also easy to individual mute/unmute tracks with autoselect-sounds in stylemode.


PA3x and PA4X have control surface buttons that do this plus configurable assignment buttons and pedals.

In some of my styles I want to mute ACCs or just percussion or just drums or a combination - I've set up my control surface to do this with single button presses.

If you really want Korg to put back an "auto-select sounds" option then for many of us, that would have to be a button and not buried in GLOBAL.

I think your needs here are very specific and personal and that's fine, i Have similar needs and just configure my keyboard to suit - hasn't let me down as yet and in each model it gets better.

FILL-to-VAR changes I'm personally not sure about yet.

Cheers

Pete Very Happy
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:30 am    Post subject: AutoSelect-Sound Reply with quote

karmathanever wrote:
... it's just a matter of setting them up conveniently to suit your playing needs.


Autoselect-Sounds with single-button-direct-access is one of these settings for ones personal playing needs.
karmathanever wrote:
I think your needs here are very specific and personal

And I think, everybodys needs are very specific and personal, if trying to optimize and simplify usage of keyboards.
karmathanever wrote:
... is a dangerous option (for SOUNDS) - it WAS a GLOBAL setting

It is not in case also using performances with autoselect and single-button-access. If it really seems to be dangerous simple do not use it.

Sure, a button and not buried in GLOBAL would be better to activate "AutoSelect", but loses importance if also performances are used with autoselect - that is because also using bank-buttons in case of Autoselect-Off does not allow a direct access to the performances.

karmathanever wrote:
These keyboards are so so so flexible and configurable.

To be used as replacement for simple single-button-access, I think it is not necessary to discuss about how to use pedals, MidiFileBacking, STS, how to prepare 8 performances in one page etc - all are suitably to be used for additional flexibility.

What kind of settings to use everybody should be free to decide. If one feature you do not like, simple do not use it. In case for whom it seems to be conveniently to suit playing needs with Autoselect-Sounds it is the most precious feature to be used for single-direct-access - it does not exist furthermore so again it is the next step backward in flexibility.
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep Sieben - I understand your specific needs.
Not arguing - just saying...

Very Happy
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