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enigmahack
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 727
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA (Eh?)
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 Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:52 am Post subject: Free PCG: Shine on You Crazy Diamond (Opening Sound) |
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Okay, I've been working on this one for a while. Did LOTS of research and... I've got something that is more than usable.
Pardon the playing, I wanted only to demo the sound, not as much to try and re-create the performance.
The demo:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49099211/SOYCD-PF-Demo.mp3
The PCG:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49099211/PFDIAMOND.PCG
The sounds are all there for you to tweak as you'd like. The Taurus Bass, The lead sound and the VC3 I believe are all entirely accurate. There's also some organ hiding in the background but for polyphony problems you can disable that channel if you want. The string sounds I believe are also pretty close too.
Again, feel free to tweak levels as you wish, but hopefully this will keep those of you who are looking for something like this happy for a while.
As a side note, there were no samples used in this at all - Everything you hear was something I programmed 
I welcome feedback and if I get enough, I might generate a version two. I believe this one to be about 95% accurate however.
Programs in User EE and User FF, Combi in User E.
Enjoy!
_________________
Korg Kronos 88 2, Korg Kronos 73, Kurzweil K2600S
Sound developer, custom sound designer and trainer/Kronos support - www.audora.ca for details! |
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DanielD71
Junior Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 90
Location: Rimouski, Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Very good Enigmahack !
Thank you
Regards |
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80salife
Senior Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 347
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Hi enigma,
as always a good job!!!
One questions, how are you begin to rebuild a sound?
Do you prefer an existing sound or an Init sound?
If you hear a sound, to you know its a saw/pulse/sync etc? Do you hear the envelopes, Cutoffs, etc...Polysix/MS2000, AL-1 or HD1?
You are so quick in programing sounds and the result is so near to original.. respect...
While owning a KRONOS the most time I'm mainly engaged in finding sounds that have a basic relationship...
Yesterday I've started a new sound and after one hour I was so tired, that it was impossible to work on...and without a result...
_________________
Love and peace to everyone
Live:
Korg KRONOS, Triton Extreme 88, Korg Trinity V3, Roland Integra, Yamaha TG 500, Korg DS-8, CME UF 88, MOTU Timepiece II,
Studio:
Samson Resolve, Rhode NT1, Ultimate Stands, Korg Legacy Collection,KARMA KRONOS, Extreme Sample Converter, Native Kontakt Piano Collection, OPX Pro II,Native Instruments GuitarPlugs, Wave Gold |
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John_O
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 19
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks so very much for this. Sounds excellent and will definitely will work.
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Kronos 2 73 and NanoPad2 user. |
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enigmahack
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 727
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA (Eh?)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| 80salife wrote: |
One questions, how are you begin to rebuild a sound?
Do you prefer an existing sound or an Init sound?
If you hear a sound, to you know its a saw/pulse/sync etc? Do you hear the envelopes, Cutoffs, etc...Polysix/MS2000, AL-1 or HD1?
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Well, honestly, I have a process. 99% of the time, I prefer to start from scratch as I learn more that way. Also, I feel like I can get a sound to about 80% accuracy faster from scratch than looking through all however many thousands of sounds that are already in the Kronos. Only if I'm already familiar with a very specific sound to I copy what's there.
The other reason I don't like copying another person's sound is because sometimes they have assignments that are subtle that will impact the final sound when being played live. If I've programmed it from scratch, I know exactly how the sound is going to act and respond.
And yes, if I hear a sound I know generally if it's a Saw, Pulse, Square, Triangle, etc... They all have very distinct characteristics. They behave and sound a certain way when you distort them, Sync oscillators, put them through filters, and run them in parallel with one another. There's a particular pattern you hear when you put them slightly out of phase, detune them both slightly, and so on.
After a while, you start getting a feel for how a sound is created. And then take that a step further, and when you hear "This sound was made on a Taurus Bass synth" then I immediately have a reference for what that synth can do, and some of it's characteristics that can be applied to the sound. I'll check out tutorials online to hear what the filters sound like on that synth if I'm not familiar (Because while most Saw type oscillators will sound almost identical from one synth to another, it's the filter that gives it flavor and that's the part you want to try and emulate)
So sorry for the wall of text, but here's the basic process I follow to recreate a sound.
1 - I listen to the sound. If I can isolate the sound somehow, I do. I can get far more accurate results if I can get each sound independently from one another in the case of thick layers.
2 - I research the sound itself. What was it made on? How was it recorded? Are there existing patches already out there? Is it a default on some OTHER synth? Can I get a hold of that synth somehow, or are there demos of people playing it somewhere. (Again, this relates back to #1 in getting it "out of the mix".
3 - Once I've got that info, I start programming. I listen for ADSR, Pitch, Time, Effects, Timbre, and morph over time. (Movement I guess you might call it) and I make sure I get these as accurate as I possibly can.
This usually gets me almost all the way there.
4 - I stop playing, walk away from my keyboard and do something else for 15-20 minutes. It gives me time to clear my ears of any noise that I'm still getting stuck on or hearing.
5 - I start changing things. I'll take a saw and put in a detuned saw instead, and see what happens. I'll start tweaking parameters and see if it gets closer or further away from the original sound. I'll start tweaking the filters, and seeing if being brighter sounds more accurate.
6 - Once I think I have it close, I record it to my PC and then do an A/B comparison. This is **VITAL** to getting the sound accurate. The reason is: When you hear a sound that has been recorded, you're hearing it after mixing, mastering, compression, whatever the recording and mixing engineer has done to the sound already. When you hear it on a keyboard "live" so to speak, the sound is MUCH more raw sounding, and when you make a sound accurately, you need to make it a little more blunt or less subtle than it sounds in the recording. (Again, this goes back to #1)
If you can record it and it sounds identical to the recorded version, you're probably good. If it doesn't, you are either adding too much, too little, or something as simple as playing the wrong notes so it doesn't sound the same. (And this has bitten me in the butt several times. I've made sounds incorrectly because *I* was playing the wrong notes, so the sound I made was accurate when playing the wrong way)
When I make sounds quickly, I don't often do step 6 because I can predict where things will end up, and it's a big time-eater to do this process repeatedly. In the Crazy Diamond sound, there are aspects that I'm not happy with, but I think it's because of how I'm playing the song compared to how it was recorded in the studio. I might be mostly accurate with the sounds by themselves but playing live would require an extra keyboard/set of hands due to polyphony or lack of fingers.
Anyway, hopefully this helps in some way. Maybe if people are interested, I will record a video of my thought process and do a few example recreations on a few simple sounds so people can see what I actually DO behind a keyboard.
It's not magic, it's just knowing what sound will create what effect, and then experimenting.
**Edit**
Forgot to mention: The other 1% of the time when I DO copy a sound, it's because it's identical to the sound I need, but might need some very slight tweaking.
Also, how do I decide when to choose AL-1 over MS-20 over Polysix, etc?
It depends on the sound. If it's a real hardcore analog sound, I'll tend to lean towards the MS-20 since the filters would require very little to get the sound correctly. Polysix is kind of a polyphony glutton so I'll use that for leads more than pads, and only if there's not much else being used in the background. AL-1 is really my go-to for very precise recreations, since it has such amazing and accurate control. STR-1 I don't really understand so that's a work in progress for me. I honestly rarely use HD-1, but will if I can't get the sound in AL-1. There's a LOT of waveforms in HD-1 that can be manipulated in a pretty similar way has the AL-1, so if the timbre just isn't quite right and filters aren't helping, that's when I fall back on the HD-1.
_________________
Korg Kronos 88 2, Korg Kronos 73, Kurzweil K2600S
Sound developer, custom sound designer and trainer/Kronos support - www.audora.ca for details! |
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80salife
Senior Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 347
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for your rsponse and your time to write down your thoughts and ways...
In the past I tried so much to understand what a sound do... Attack, Release and Cutoff thats not so hard, but is there a LFO... over...
I cant decide if there is a saw square or what else, I know the grafics, but my hearing and my apprehensions are two different things
A Video within your extraordinary knowledge would be wonderful...
_________________
Love and peace to everyone
Live:
Korg KRONOS, Triton Extreme 88, Korg Trinity V3, Roland Integra, Yamaha TG 500, Korg DS-8, CME UF 88, MOTU Timepiece II,
Studio:
Samson Resolve, Rhode NT1, Ultimate Stands, Korg Legacy Collection,KARMA KRONOS, Extreme Sample Converter, Native Kontakt Piano Collection, OPX Pro II,Native Instruments GuitarPlugs, Wave Gold |
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enigmahack
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 727
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA (Eh?)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| 80salife wrote: | Thank you for your rsponse and your time to write down your thoughts and ways...
In the past I tried so much to understand what a sound do... Attack, Release and Cutoff thats not so hard, but is there a LFO... over...
I cant decide if there is a saw square or what else, I know the grafics, but my hearing and my apprehensions are two different things
A Video within your extraordinary knowledge would be wonderful... |
Okay. The next sound I have to work on, I'll record a video describing my thought process and such, and walk through how I make the sound.
_________________
Korg Kronos 88 2, Korg Kronos 73, Kurzweil K2600S
Sound developer, custom sound designer and trainer/Kronos support - www.audora.ca for details! |
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traveler
Junior Member
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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EXCELLENT WORK!
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Kronos X61, Kronos 73, Nord Electro 3 HP, Korg SV-1 73, MicroKorg XL. Omnisphere, NI Komplete Ultimate 9, Ivory, Kazoo, etc... |
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Francois
Approved Merchant
Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 4854
Location: Northants - UK
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Great job, thanks.
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Kronoscopie, tout sur le Kronos en français
http://www.kronoscopie.fr |
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holdsg
Full Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 229
Location: Alta Loma, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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I look forward to checking this out.
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Bass and keyboard player, not usually at the same time, but sometimes in the same song!
Boards: Kronos 2, and Hammond SK1
Basses: Fender, G&L |
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coyote144
Approved Merchant
Joined: 29 Apr 2012
Posts: 201
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keez
Junior Member
Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 97
Location: Wirral, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Very nice
Here's mine. The entire intro is done using the Kronos, the Triton is used only as a controller.
It took me many months of tweaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3cHu9FqJHM |
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enigmahack
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 727
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA (Eh?)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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How did you go about programming the "door creak" sound or was it a sample?
_________________
Korg Kronos 88 2, Korg Kronos 73, Kurzweil K2600S
Sound developer, custom sound designer and trainer/Kronos support - www.audora.ca for details! |
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Hal2001
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Posts: 367
Location: US
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Enigmahack sound creation sounds real good. The Keez music video performance entertains great. Kudos to both of you. Hal
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My Music: www.youtube.com/Halunlimited
Kronos 88 and Genos, Logic Pro, Omnisphere |
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Dniss
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 1279
Location: Pale blue dot
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks man! |
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