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SanderXpander
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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 Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'm very excited about the upgrade too, regardless of SR quality which I won't test until after the weekend.
In any case I find it pretty ridiculous to talk of a "cheap marketing ploy" when it concerns a free upgrade that they didn't owe you at all. If you had bought a Kronos 2 for the upgrade we might have a different discussion (although I would ask why you bought it if you didn't like the new features), but as it is you owned a board without these features and then they were given to you for free. |
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lonelagranger
Senior Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 291
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I loaded the update. Easy as pie. Played my Kronos all day long. Was very, very happy. And the price is right. I have made my own complaints about the Kronos, but all in all I like it very much. Before the update, and even better after. Thank you Korg for keeping us interested in your products and giving us the tools to play our music more expressively. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Totally Underwhelmed! |
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| AndreasF wrote: | Is it me or does the sympathetic resonance piano engine sound more annoying than nice? To me it just sounds like wind chimes in the distance and doesn't sound musical or even anything like a real piano, at least on the older Kronos pianos. It seems like a cheap marketing ploy to upgrade without really doing too much. The touch-drag functionality should have been there from the start (the technology always was), and as such tends to make the parameters jump wildly if you drag wrong. The setlist upgrade is nice, but easy window dressing to add to the OS.
What I would have loved to see was new filters like in the KingKorg, or another synth model perhaps.
I'm underwhelmed. |
me too ! Totally ! whats up with that ????
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burningbusch
Approved Merchant
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| AndreasF wrote: | If I set it low enough for it not to have an annoying ring, then I don't even hear much of a difference between that and when it is off. I was so excited by the update I invited a large group of fellow musicians over, and their sentiments were exactly the same. It's quite annoying and unnatural sounding. It really gave me a headache.
There's still great achievements that can be made in DSP programming, it's such a shame Korg is wasting their talents on cheap gimmicks just to extend the Kronos line a little longer, presumably while they buy time to develop the real advances for the next generation workstation.
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When set in the range people have recommended here (high teens-low twenties) it mimics how a grand piano responds. If you depress a chord in the middle register gently and keep the keys depressed, then when you strike the right notes, the strings of the depressed keys with begin to vibrate sympathetically. Pretty obviously, getting strings to vibrate sympathetically vs. striking them with the hammer will cause those strings to sound with far less intensity, hence subtle. The undamped strings in the highest range of the piano also respond sympathetically. So yes, it is a subtle effect but all sophisticated software piano engines have it. All of the "add-ons" if you will, damper resonance, noises, key offs and now string resonance are fairly subtle, but if you turn them all of them off, you should be able to easily hear the piano has lost a good deal of realism. Also, string resonance is greatly dependent on how you play. If you're playing with pedal down, it has no effect as now damper resonance takes over.
Have you every tried the string resonance experiment on an actual piano to hear this effect?
As far as your last statement, if you don't think the Kronos represents state-of-the-art in the hardware world, I would be very curious as to what you think surpasses it.
Busch.
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Last edited by burningbusch on Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| AndreasF wrote: | | I invited a large group of fellow musicians to hear it, and to the one they said something along the lines of "Ewwww". It truly gives me a headache. I really expected so much more of Korg for version 3. |
i know ! a large group of fellow musicians said the same to me !
what songs where you playing ?
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Thoraldus
Platinum Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Posts: 2061
Location: Rocky Mountains - SE IDaho
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| SanderXpander wrote: | I'm very excited about the upgrade too, regardless of SR quality which I won't test until after the weekend.
In any case I find it pretty ridiculous to talk of a "cheap marketing ploy" when it concerns a free upgrade that they didn't owe you at all. If you had bought a Kronos 2 for the upgrade we might have a different discussion (although I would ask why you bought it if you didn't like the new features), but as it is you owned a board without these features and then they were given to you for free. |
Yamaha or Roland might characterize the update as a "cheap marketing ploy" (1st post hint hint) 
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| AndreasF wrote: | | If I set it low enough for it not to have an annoying ring, then I don't even hear much of a difference between that and when it is off. |
It sounds to me like you have it set too loud. The effect is pretty subtle on real pianos, too. Factory sounds which use it (for the new pianos) have it set pretty low; try around 20 for a start.
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For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
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AndreasF
Joined: 05 Dec 2014
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:38 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps I wasn't very tactful. I was kinda grumpy in the morning.
While I first noticed it set to a higher level, and then reduced it, it was harder to hear if at that lower level to not contain the artifact if it really changed the sound much or not at all when I A/B'ed them and just felt thus, like a gimmick.
Wasn't happy about my knobs jumping wildly sometimes when I tried to drag them.
That said, let me say a good word for all the times I've played that Kronos and have totally enchanted by the sound.
Oh and, really was hoping for more filters. |
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keez
Junior Member
Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 97
Location: Wirral, UK
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:14 am Post subject: |
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I've also just assembled a huge group of musicians so they can share in my OS3.0 excitement. They trashed the place and left in a huff when they realised I'd gathered them all just to listen to some piano sound enhancement.
Not happy.  |
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AndreasF
Joined: 05 Dec 2014
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| OK, not a large group, just some musicians I play with and our practice coincided with release. Still the initial reaction was lukewarm at best. |
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
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Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| AndreasF wrote: | | OK, not a large group, just some musicians I play with and our practice coincided with release. Still the initial reaction was lukewarm at best. |
"Musicians you play with and had a practice with" - Well, since you're the keyboardist, I am assuming that they might be guitarists, bassists, drummers, lead singers etc. So you seriously expected your guitarist or drummer, for example, to drop his jaw and say "Wow! to my ears, that sympathetic resonance is contributing to what must be the greatest advance in piano technology and sound since the clavichord!" C'mon. This is a keyboard-geeky thing that only we can appreciate.
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danmusician
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 875
Location: Southern PA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| StephenKay wrote: | | C'mon. This is a keyboard-geeky thing that only we can appreciate. |
I was once showing an audience the difference between the German, Japanese and Austrian Grand. As I was finished up, I saw one lady mouth to her neighbor, "The sound the same to me!"
When I played acoustic grands, I would sometimes be annoyed by the mechanical noises. Now, we dial them in on purpose!
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Derek Cook
Approved Merchant
Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 1279
Location: Wales, UK
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I'm my view, I take my hat off to Korg for implementing this.
I'm currently relearning "Great Gig In The Sky" after not having played it for a while, ready for some gigs in the new year, and I'm using the Kronos as the main source of sounds for that gig. I installed OS 3 last night, messed about with some of the features including string resonance. Saw this post and I tried it again this morning, listening a little more critically. For my Great Gig sound, when I turn on sympathetic resonance, the difference is noticeable, but not in your face, and it adds to the overall quality of the sound. I have the setting at about 30.
Thank you, Korg!
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Mr_SamDoogie
Full Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
Posts: 239
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:42 am Post subject: The placebo effect |
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I did an firmware update of one of my keyboard a while back it produced the most awfullest ringing noise on one and more patches, driving me mad luckily I could return to a previous firmware that wasn't quiet it neither because the newer one had fixes I needed.
I've complained about it on a forum and one manager went out to test it, I was not the only one with that particular problem. They tested it and found nothing.
Reluctantly I've installed the firmware update on the keyboard again and what do you know. Gone was the annoying ringing although some other issue where apparent the ringing was gone there always can be slight differences that can make or break a good installation might call it the placebo effect from returning to an previous update and back to the latest keyboard are just as complex inside as any equipment I say.
Either way I'm always glad not to send it away for repairs and wait for weeks . |
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Funky40
Junior Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2014
Posts: 62
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| SanderXpander wrote: |
In any case I find it pretty ridiculous to talk of a "cheap marketing ploy" when it concerns a free upgrade that they didn't owe you at all. |
I understand AndrewFs post.
he was probably more pointing to how the market is running in general, with focus that there is a new Kronos which is advertised in one way or the other............my impression on that.
I would not taking it in any way as critics against the update
i´ve set the SR after some experimenting around to 16 on my GRND sound .
more a tame setting as i find it also to sound unnatural.
but i thought probably it was thought to be set just on the Boarder where it becomes recognisable, which is IMHO at around 20
i´m VERY happy with the free update.
it saves me for any lusting for the new Kronos ( bought mine 7weeks ago )
personally i have hoped for "more" on the "bigger fonts" side with that update.
with some clever approach one could probably get to the insight that on certain screens, certain checkboxes should be rated as more important to be bigger, thus making these bigger.
in seq mode , the whole third row for example: midiTrack / metronom / add global loop to that row.
---> rearrange some things in seq mode.
i see the "big" improvements there, on those small things,
though, harder to use for your next advertisements, lol . |
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