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ideas for chaining devices together via MIDI

 
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jeebustrain
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: ideas for chaining devices together via MIDI Reply with quote

so against my better judgement, GAS has hit me again. I picked up a Roland Integra7, with the intention of incorporating it into my live rig. My current setup is:

1. Kronos MIDI Out -> midi thru box
2. Prophet 12 (channel 13) midi out -> Kronos MIDI In
3. GSI Burn (channel 11) (receiving program change from Kronos via thru box)
4. TC Voicelive Touch (Channel 15) (receiving program change from Kronos via thru box)
5. Integra receiving (receiving program change and midi information from Kronos via thru box)

Everything works now except that I can't play the Integra from the Prophet. That makes sense because CHAN13 is going out from the Prophet into the Kronos and is not sending it onto the Integra. Ideally, I wish the Kronos MIDI out operated as a thru as well, so I could pass the data. But that doesn't appear to be the case (and I can't figure out a way to turn something like that on).

What I'd like to ultimately do is play the Integra from either the Prophet or the Kronos, and still be able to send program change information to all the gear from the Kronos.

Is there any way of doing what I want to do without adding more hardware?
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HardSync
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be possible.

I think you can use KARMA MIDI I/O for this so that you can have Ch.13 routed to whatever channel the Integra is set to, as long as you are doing this in a combi or sequence (can't be in Program mode), and if you have a free module in KARMA.

So... leave all of your MIDI connections as is. (Sorry, I'm doing this in my head because I can't test it and so the instructions are a bit "if / then").

On the Kronos's GE Setup/Key Zones screen, in the MIDI I/O section, set a module's Input Ch. to 13 (let's use Module D). Set the Output Ch. to the same channel as the Integra. Ensure the key zoning here is appropriate, too.

Check the Timbre Thru box in the MIDI I/O section. Leave KARMA turned off. Play the Prophet and see if the Integra is getting any MIDI. If not, go to the Global MIDI page.

Ensure both Enable KARMA Module to MIDI Out and Enable MIDI In to KARMA Module boxes are checked. If they are enabled and the Prophet is still not triggering the Integra, return to the combi.

You'll need to configure Module D so that KARMA doesn't generate any note data when receiving input. Uncheck the Run box (you may need to break the association to the KARMA SW4 if it's assigned on the PerfRTP screen). You can uncheck the Timbre Thru in the MIDI I/O section now. But I think you will want to check the Thru in Zone for Module D above in the GE Setup Section. Turn on KARMA and play Prophet.

Hopefully that will work. I'm thinking one of these ways will work... sorry that I can't test it.
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jeebustrain
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Hardsync, I had a feeling you might reply.

Thanks for your help with this. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be working at the moment.

I'm going to keep digging at it and let you know if I can find it though.
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HardSync
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome. Shame that this isn't working. The only thing I can of think of that might be missing is a timbre in the combi that is set to the same channel as the Integra with a status of EX2. But I presume if you're sending program changes from the Kronos, you already have that timbre set up.

For stuff like this (and to accommodate gear acquisition syndrome), a hardware MIDI Merger is definitely the way forward. I use an old 1980s JL Cooper MSB+ that simply does everything (no USB connection) -- I'll never part with it and one will need to pry it from my cold, dead fingers before I do. 8 inputs, 8 outputs, completely programmable, Thru, Merge, MIDI Message Filtering, panic button for stuck notes, etc... They're pretty rare, but there's one on Ebay as I type: http://www.ebay.com/itm/JL-Cooper-MIDI-Switcher-MSB-Rev-2-vintage-MIDI-router-/301402367884?pt=US_Power_Conditioners&hash=item462cfb278c

I know you don't want more hardware though, but you might want to look into it someday.
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jeebustrain
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yea, I'm not opposed to more hardware, but the rack is kinda tight (this is for live) as it is. I might be able to sneak a 1u into the rear rails (it's a deep 6u SKB rack and I added a 2nd set of rails to the back). I already have a MIDI Solutions 1x4 MIDI Thru box to send the existing program changes. I'm thinking I might be able to get away with a 2x1 Merger box, but you're probably right, something like that JL Cooper might be a better bet in the long term.

Do you use presets on yours? Or can you use it wide open where all INs transmit to all OUTs?


I'm still going to try and play with using Karma though to see how far I get. I have til next weekend to get something working with it. I'll at least be able to get some of my guitar patches updated, since I usually play them on the Kronos, anyway.
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HardSync
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe there are any pre-programmed presets. You get 64 program slots to save your own custom setups. I doubt that I have ever used/saved more than a dozen of them -- and back when I did live gigs, I probably used only 2 or 3 setups. It also receives program changes, so you could switch setups by sending a program change to the MSB+ from the Kronos for example. Furthermore, the MSB+ itself is capable of sending out program changes to your connected synths.

There's an owner's manual here: https://jlcooper.com/_manuals/legacy/mSB/MSBREVII.pdf It's only 47 pages, and really just reading page 4 - Chapter 2 - should give you an idea of what it can do and whether it's right for you. I get that a lot of people prefer software instead of hardware for something like this, but I guess I'm just old-fashioned.

Probably the one thing to absolutely consider before buying one is that they are no longer being sold nor serviced by JL Cooper -- as far as I'm aware anyway. If it dies, you're going to be SOL. That said, mine has never had one problem and I've had it since 1990.
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jeebustrain
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardSync wrote:
I don't believe there are any pre-programmed presets. You get 64 program slots to save your own custom setups. I doubt that I have ever used/saved more than a dozen of them -- and back when I did live gigs, I probably used only 2 or 3 setups. It also receives program changes, so you could switch setups by sending a program change to the MSB+ from the Kronos for example. Furthermore, the MSB+ itself is capable of sending out program changes to your connected synths.

There's an owner's manual here: https://jlcooper.com/_manuals/legacy/mSB/MSBREVII.pdf It's only 47 pages, and really just reading page 4 - Chapter 2 - should give you an idea of what it can do and whether it's right for you. I get that a lot of people prefer software instead of hardware for something like this, but I guess I'm just old-fashioned.

Probably the one thing to absolutely consider before buying one is that they are no longer being sold nor serviced by JL Cooper -- as far as I'm aware anyway. If it dies, you're going to be SOL. That said, mine has never had one problem and I've had it since 1990.


Thanks for the info. I'm mainly looking for something along the lines of a hub (in the network sense), basically something that will broadcast all channels on all ports. I used to have a Midiman 8x8 that did that, but sold it years ago.

I've also been looking at the MOTU stuff. This looks like it might give me what I need. It's nice and compact, too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motu-Micro-Express-4x6-MIDI-Interface-96-Channels-/181592037691?pt=US_Computer_Recording_Interfaces&hash=item2a47ba993b

Part of me is still holding out for the Kronos to be able to do this. It's been so flexible with everything else thus far. Most of the things I'm doing with it with this band, I could only do with a laptop in my rig a few years ago. It's been absolutely amazing.
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Ksynth
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iConnectmidi 2 or better still the iConnectmidi4 should solve your problems.

Did you get the free Roland WiFi stick for your Integra7? Or did they run out of them?

You can play the Integra remotely from an iPad with that.
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jeebustrain
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ksynth wrote:
iConnectmidi 2 or better still the iConnectmidi4 should solve your problems.

Did you get the free Roland WiFi stick for your Integra7? Or did they run out of them?

You can play the Integra remotely from an iPad with that.


I picked up my Integra via Ebay (was a display from a SamAsh store in Florida) and I don't think it came in the box. I'll double check tonight, though. Right now I have a usb cable hanging out of my rack for configuration via iPad.

I ended up grabbing a MOTU Micro Express this morning. I'm hoping to have all this business sorted out by this weekend. While a lot of the bread'n butter sounds on the Kronos crush anything that's in the Integra, I'm finding I really like the guitars (there are a couple songs I play rhythm guitar on via keyboard) and the SuperNatural Synth has me happy to have the Jupiter/Juno type sounds I lost when I switched out my v-synth for the Prophet. Some of the brass/sax sounds are a nice contrast to the Kronos as well and I look forward to trying to layer them to get some fuller sounds.
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Ksynth
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeebustrain wrote:
Ksynth wrote:
iConnectmidi 2 or better still the iConnectmidi4 should solve your problems.

Did you get the free Roland WiFi stick for your Integra7? Or did they run out of them?

You can play the Integra remotely from an iPad with that.


I picked up my Integra via Ebay (was a display from a SamAsh store in Florida) and I don't think it came in the box. I'll double check tonight, though. Right now I have a usb cable hanging out of my rack for configuration via iPad.

I ended up grabbing a MOTU Micro Express this morning. I'm hoping to have all this business sorted out by this weekend. While a lot of the bread'n butter sounds on the Kronos crush anything that's in the Integra, I'm finding I really like the guitars (there are a couple songs I play rhythm guitar on via keyboard) and the SuperNatural Synth has me happy to have the Jupiter/Juno type sounds I lost when I switched out my v-synth for the Prophet. Some of the brass/sax sounds are a nice contrast to the Kronos as well and I look forward to trying to layer them to get some fuller sounds.


You had to write in for the WiFi usb stick for new Integra's only I think.

They are fairly cheap online. Roland want $30 or something like that.
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Corgy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:32 am    Post subject: Re: ideas for chaining devices together via MIDI Reply with quote

jeebustrain wrote:
What I'd like to ultimately do is play the Integra from either the Prophet or the Kronos, and still be able to send program change information to all the gear from the Kronos.

Is there any way of doing what I want to do without adding more hardware?


In my rig I use a midi-matrix. With this set-up I can have multiple midi-sources and midi receiver connected criss-cross - as I like. You might want to have a look at the MOTU Midiexpress series or Mikro Light ...


Last edited by Corgy on Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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jeebustrain
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:10 am    Post subject: Re: ideas for chaining devices together via MIDI Reply with quote

Corgy wrote:
jeebustrain wrote:
What I'd like to ultimately do is play the Integra from either the Prophet or the Kronos, and still be able to send program change information to all the gear from the Kronos.

Is there any way of doing what I want to do without adding more hardware?


In my rig I use a midi-matrix. With this set-up I can have multiple midi-sources and midi receiver connected criss-cross - as I like. You might want to have a look at the MOTU Midiexpress series or Mikro Light ...


heh, see my last post. I just bought a Micro Express this morning.
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::: Korg Kronos 88 ::: Alesis Fusion 8HD ::: Kurzweil PC361 ::: Roland V-Synth ::: DSI Prophet 12 ::: DSI OB-6 ::: Korg Prophecy ::: Moog Micromoog ::: Yamaha CP-30 ::: Alesis Andromeda ::: Moog Sub37 ::: Sequential Prophet 600 ::: Korg MS2000BR ::: GSI Burn :::

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Corgy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: ideas for chaining devices together via MIDI Reply with quote

jeebustrain wrote:
Corgy wrote:
jeebustrain wrote:
What I'd like to ultimately do is play the Integra from either the Prophet or the Kronos, and still be able to send program change information to all the gear from the Kronos.

Is there any way of doing what I want to do without adding more hardware?


In my rig I use a midi-matrix. With this set-up I can have multiple midi-sources and midi receiver connected criss-cross - as I like. You might want to have a look at the MOTU Midiexpress series or Mikro Light ...


heh, see my last post. I just bought a Micro Express this morning.


Yes, now I see. Did not read through all the posts... Good decision.
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