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DAW + MS + MIDI + EDITOR

 
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johnroney
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Joined: 16 May 2011
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:25 am    Post subject: DAW + MS + MIDI + EDITOR Reply with quote

hello everybody in korgland... this is going to be a long message - most of it informative, for those of you who are interested in using the MS with a DAW and using MIDI files, and the infamous EDITOR...

disclaimer : i have been very vocal on this forum for my love for the MS, and yet my total dissatisfaction about the editor software and the internal brain of the MS. please check other forums first for more info, or PM me if you want.

i have just finished preparing a playback track on the MS with help from LOGIC PRO 9. pretty standard. it's a loop to play with live. we need a click onstage, so i hard panned everything for the audience to L and the click and a submix to R... how?

here's where our adventure begins!

although this is hypothetically possible using only the unit, i decided i'd make my life easier (ha!) using the EDITOR

1. OPEN LOGIC and create vst (instrument) track for the EDITOR
2. load EDITOR
3. create 16 new tracks in DAW and put some kind of dummy CC# midi message at the beginning of each one... (or, do this at the very end)
4. organize your EDITOR to playback the sounds that you want.

IMPORTANT ! ! !- i use a secondary/independant CONTROLLER to input notes into LOGIC - on ch1 (any) - it has 88 keys, is big and feels good... and - I DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE THE LOCAL SETTINGS on the MS to work around the loop created by having the editor open, changing midi channels, and using the MS as an input source. what a nightmare that is... and, if you turn off LOCAL, any midi files loaded on the machine will not play back until you put it back on... so it takes another step to verify your progress...
back to the task...

5. create your midi arrangement - record each TRACK that will go onto the corrosponding TRACKS of the MS in your DAW. - you should have 16 tracks dummied up and ready to record, PLUS the editor track (if you have it open).

6. IMPORTANT ! ! ! now that you have the sounds that you want, and everything is playing back nicely - do a little mix (volumes, pan, tone, etc.) with the EDITOR and get everything perfect. NOW - ON THE MS - do the following:
SONG Command>Save Template>To>(choose a user location)
>,>OK? > and, save it. you can check the list if it is there.

choosing your sounds after the fact is a total drag - especially if you have IFX attached to DRUMS, and now you need that track for STRINGS or similar - you'll end up with a mix that is upside-down.

you may just want to select your favorite KORG sounds that are the typical GM channels (drums on 10, etc... like all other software... ) and then SAVE TEMPLATE for that-

AFTERWARDS - when your midi file is created, you will LOAD it from the MEDIA (LOAD SMF) and sometimes you will notice that it is not what you had worked HOURS on to get perfect ! ! !(ouch)... BUT ! now, you LOAD TEMPLATE - the same one you were working on, and it should be cool...
(i'll get back to this later...)

back to point #7.

7. NONE OF THE LIBRARIAN UTILITIES in the SEQ page of the EDITOR do a g*ddamn thing... (haha! what a joke...) WRITE SEQ, LOAD, SAVE, IMPORT, EXPORT - they don't do anything - if someone out there can prove me otherwise, and offer a valid use for any of those actions... be my guest !
bradkorg has suggested that we use these to save SEQ setups (which is basically the same as a TEMPLATE) but you need the computer to access them again, and there is not really a great way to librarian them on the unit.

and...
8. you can forget about sending any MIDI from the DAW into the MS via USB. not going to happen. not 'sequenced' MIDI to be clear.

so remember point #3.... CREATE DUMMY CC# at the beginning of all 16 tracks. these tracks become each of the 16 tracks on the MS, in sequence. regardless of MIDI Ch. and regardless of whatever your EDITOR settings, and regardless of your TEMPLATES, GM, or whatever setting you have on the MS, you NEED DUMMY TRACKS !! ! i just put some pitch bend after the final notes on dead tracks... works fine.

9. now, you make a MIDI file from your DAW. Export to SD card.
10. put SD card with MIDI file into MS
11. MEDIA>LOAD>SMF
12. SEQ> LOAD TEMPLATE

and whammo... it should work now. HAHAHAHA.... complicated enough?

now... don't forget #13.
13. MEDIA>SAVE SNG
and
14. RENAME SNG - can't we just do this from the start??!? hahaha...

if you don't save the SNG, you will lose again all the SEQ setup work that you did on the sounds.

here is now a list of the shortcomings/bugs that i discovered in this process...

1. no recognition of tempo when midi file is loaded. perhaps this depends on the DAW - logic only has a MIDI export feature, with no bells/whistles.

2. MS does not map MIDI Ch to TRACKS with the corrosponding MIDI Ch - it does the 'dummy track' thing.

3. MS itslef has no way to librarian your SEQ setups... unless you make COMBIs,and then always LOAD FROM COMBI - which is not a bad option... once you run out of TEMPLATES (ouch...)

4. after transferring the MIDI file, i noticed that one track (which had nothing on it) was silent... for no reason. the MIDI Ch was active, on INT sound generation, not MUTE, etc... and full volume. very buggy.

5. in fact, this can be replicated - there are strange MIDI Ch crossovers when using COMBIS - try loading COMBI (Pno/Str) into the SEQ = when you play on MIDI CH.1, you hear both piano and strings... although their Ch. is 16= but 16 is OFF and sent to an arpeggiator (like a drum trigger)... but, now 16 when activated is silent... and there is no way to separate pno from strings ! ! ! !AARRRGGGH!!! what?

i'm probably leaving out about 3 hours worth of frustration, but i finally figured it out...
i have used this thing live for about 2 years now, and it's great. my sounds are now killing, and i have learned how to use this thing as :
1. a drum machine - PLAY/MUTE the 16 TRACKS with different parts.
2. a synth - programming from scratch
3. a workstation - making complicated combis for live use.
4. a playback tool - making loops/midi files
5. recording sound fx directly into DAW- it's sometimes easier to work with audio, and there are some neat sounds in this thing...
6. there is no way to BUS differently a metronome the HEADPHONES... and no automatic PAN when using metronome on PAN to L or R to compensate. so, making a click track with a sequence is tough.

for my live clicktrack, i sequenced a rimshot where we need it, and panned it hard to the R.
in the DAW, i had to do all my sequencing on 8 tracks - well, 7 because the Ch. 16 went dead, as explained.
first, put the click on Ch.15... then, simply double the tracks in the DAW - TRACKS 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 i panned L. in the DAW, i simply copied the same tracks, and sent them to 9,10,11,12,13,14, panned hard R. - aha ! ... so, there are now 2 mono mixes - do the appropriate tweaking (IFX, volumes, limiters, etc...) to make it sound right... turn off your speakers, listen to R, listen to L, check it all out... and SAVE TEMPLATE ! ! !
L goes to HOUSE, and R goes to monitors ONSTAGE.
i can now have the midi file playback on 2 different templates - one with a click (with all 15 Ch. open) - (and, of course, if i mute Ch. 15 there is no click)... but then i can LOAD TEMPLATE which is basicaly TRACKS 1-9 open, and TRACKS 9-16 MUTE... and panned differently...
depending on your needs...

i can say that i never use the unit with the internal sequencer. it is just too archaic, and not visual enough.

somehow, somewhere, it would be great to SEE the structural brain of the MS and how it handles data. especially to be able to work better with arpeggiators, sequences, and patterns...
bradkorg says that the MS 'has it's own DAW' - meaning that it kinda does what a computer would do... well, it would just be great to see under the hood... because it's messy in there.
messy, beautiful, under $300, and still counts as carry-on luggage Smile
see you at NAMM! jan. 23, 6pm at the HILTON stage.
johnroney
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Mr_SamDoogie
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Joined: 01 Jan 2014
Posts: 239
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:10 pm    Post subject: Good job at it Johnyronny Reply with quote

Now this is something you wont hear every day thanks for sharing you're pointers. the ms is a decent synth nice sound I love it my first Korg.
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