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Midi clock

 
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Hexfix93
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:55 pm    Post subject: Midi clock Reply with quote

I was trying to control my dmx operator 192 ligthing controller via midi, and the kronos send out midi clock which messes it up big time.

i use the kronos for my backing tracks in the seq mode, so i need that to work, when i put in external clock the seq wont even start, and i want to use the korg as a stand alone unit, wtf, cannot turn off transmit midi clock?

So annoying..
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4117
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Midi clock Reply with quote

Hexfix93 wrote:
I was trying to control my dmx operator 192 ligthing controller via midi, and the kronos send out midi clock which messes it up big time.

i use the kronos for my backing tracks in the seq mode, so i need that to work, when i put in external clock the seq wont even start, and i want to use the korg as a stand alone unit, wtf, cannot turn off transmit midi clock?

So annoying..


Your DMX system can't handle MIDI clocks?
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Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
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Hexfix93
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the elation dmx operator 192 chokes when midi clock is sent to it. yes..

the elation dmx operator works fine tho, bummer.

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodepp.htm

I bought this , but man why should i have to spend 123 bucks to filter the stupid midi clock on the kronos?

KORG WTF!
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Sharp
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 17950
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is this KORG's fault if your elation dmx operator chokes because it can't handle midi clock?

I've my KRONOS as Master going into a 4 Channel Midi Solutions splitter and from there it goes to a VIRUS, Pa3X, Integra 7 and my mixing desk.

None of those choke or misbehave in anyway.

I don't get it. Question

Regards
Sharp.
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Hexfix93
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In cubase, i can shut off midi clock trasmitting out of the sequncer.

Cannot do that on the kronos, and yes, that is korg's fault.
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4117
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hexfix93 wrote:
the elation dmx operator 192 chokes when midi clock is sent to it. yes..

the elation dmx operator works fine tho, bummer.

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodepp.htm

I bought this , but man why should i have to spend 123 bucks to filter the stupid midi clock on the kronos?

KORG WTF!


Sounds like the DMX device isn't MIDI compliant. I'd suggest that you talk to them about their misbehaving device and get them to fix it; if they aren't MIDI compliant, they can't really say that it supports MIDI at all. I do agree that it would be nice to disable MIDI clock transmission on the KRONOS, but if you're going to be shouting at anyone, it should be the folks whose device isn't performing to spec.
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com
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Hexfix93
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, midi clock screws up midi timing, creates jitter and makes me never want to use the seq to sequence my hardware with the kronos.

Its an issue.. a real one..
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4117
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hexfix93 wrote:
No, midi clock screws up midi timing, creates jitter and makes me never want to use the seq to sequence my hardware with the kronos.

Its an issue.. a real one..


You're completely correct that MIDI clocks cause a very small amount of jitter in the MIDI data stream. MIDI clocks are real-time messages, which means that they can be inserted in the middle of standard MIDI messages. A clock is a single–byte message, which means that it takes 320 nanoseconds to transmit (less than a third of a millisecond). So, if some MIDI messages are interrupted by a clock byte, and others are not, it would cause a jitter of 320ns.

To put that into perspective, some time ago Sound On Sound did a comprehensive article on jitter and latency for computer MIDI interfaces, and found the best-case combination of hardware and software to have about 0.1 milliseconds of jitter, but most measured at 1.5 ms or more (5 times the jitter caused by MIDI clock). They estimated 2 ms of jitter as being generally inaudible - and that's six times greater than the 320ns jitter caused by midi clocks. Jitter with softsynths was worse. These tests are old at this point; it would be interesting to see something newer.

(See The Truth About Latency: Part 2)

So, to sum up: while MIDI clocks do indeed cause tiny amounts of jitter, the effect should not be audible, and may well be dwarfed by other factors. It should not be a cause for concern.
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com
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