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jacupmakeup
Joined: 19 Aug 2013
Posts: 10
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 Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:11 pm Post subject: Workstation vs VST if money no object |
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I used to make rap and downbeat electronic beats back in the day using a triton. I tried the switch to software using reason and logic and never got the hang of it and ended up giving up music altogether. I want to get back into it and am hoping for some advice.
If money were no object, would you want a nice workstation or two (kronos, etc) or nice VSTs (komplete, omnisphere, etc.)?
I always felt that VST sounds were very hollow compared to what can be done using a keyboard, but i'm sure that since i've been in the game the software has improved. I'm aiming for full, rich sounds over anything else and am a big fan of geeking out on one sound and layering effects. I have a new mac that can handle big sound libraries. I don't plan on playing live, so portability is not an issue.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks! |
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gjvti
Senior Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 327
Location: Riga, Latvia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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if money wasn't object you most likely wouldn't ask such question, but just bough everything you find interesting to find out whether it fits to you or not 
Technically speaking I don't know software solution, which would allow instant smooth switching between sound or sound combinations of several different synth engines as Kronos do. Honestly I doubt anything else can do that, but if you don't want to play live than such live features might not be important to you. Building linear blocks in PC could be much easier. So you just use what inspires you and what best fits to your workflow. |
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MoonMusic
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 283
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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If you made music on hardware and gave it up using software....I'm guessing hardware would be your answer....Both hardware and software have improved since you used it last....I use both and find advantages to both....Use whatever works and don't worry about the price since money doesn't matter....  ......moon
_________________
Keyboards - Korg Kronos X, Kawai K5000W,M-Audio Venom, Ensoniq TS-12,Kawai K4
Computers - Macbook Pro, Mac Pro "Nehalem"
Interfaces - M-Box Pro, Digidesign 96i,192, Midi IO, Digidesign PRE
DAW - Protools 9 - HD3 Accel
Plugs - All Spectrasonics,Steve Slate Drums 4.0,Slate Trigger,NI Komplete 9 Ultimate,Korg Legacy,Melodyne 3,Evo Autotune,HD3 Pack,Liquid Mix, Eleven, Ample Sound Guitars
Mics - Audio Technica 4033sm, Apogee mic, several Shure SM-57s, 2- Beta 52, 2- AT 3031, 2- Samson CO2
Other - V-Drums, DW Drums, Zildjian A Customs, Muse Research Qu4ttro, Open Labs Miko Timbaland Edition |
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Bald Eagle
Platinum Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 2278
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree with the others. If money is no object then get both hardware and software. Use what ever tool fits the task at hand. Maybe for one project an analog mono synth will do the job while another project can benefit from a good vst. Kronos, Moog Voyager, Prophet 12, Omnisphere and Komplete would make a nice starter set. |
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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If money was no object, I'd still keep things simple, clean and as productive as possible.
1: KORG KRONOS 61 Key
2: Access Virus TI 2 Keyboard
3: Alien Ware Laptop running Omnisphere
I would place the laptop on the right hand side of the Virus, and I'd have the KRONOS at 90 degrees to my right so the laptop is between the Virus and KRONOS.
Done...!!!!
All the sounds you could ever want in a super small and highly productive workspace. No distractions.
However, that's just me.
Regards
Sharp.
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jacupmakeup
Joined: 19 Aug 2013
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies, everyone. I guess there's probably no right or wrong way to go - it just depends on what one is comfortable with. I'll probably get the kronos x to start with and go from there. Any recommendations on a good DAW to record from a keyboard that will also integrate with VSTs i might pick up later on? I have experience with Logic so am leaning in that direction.
As far as VSTs to complement, I'll have to see what areas the kronos lacks - everyone seems to like Omnisphere. |
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Shakil
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
Posts: 1169
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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If you will be making mainly hip hop, then some sort of AKAI instrument should be in your studio...
_________________
Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol. |
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Bertotti
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 3384
Location: Middle of nowhere
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Kronos 61, maschine, laptop Logic Pro X with omnisphere and komplete ultimate9. Oh sorry my dream! Working the first three now and love it. |
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genehart
Full Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2012
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:15 am Post subject: |
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to my opinion, Kronos is first of all for guys who are serious about playing keyboards . It has a complete soundset for urban music production , it has the right sound for orchestral instruments .
You can easily reproduce many of modern urban songs with the sounds of Kronos , however you might need to program your own presets
especially for drums . If you want "that modern hip-hop sound" you'll need to make your own drum kits with layering drums etc , also you'll need to learn how to modify sounds and fx as if you're a professional sound engineer ,
because some of the presets are not "production ready"
with vsti's it's pretty hard to find the exact sounds of Korg , Motifs and others that are used in the most of modern hip-hop, rnb and related production .
the Kronos is truly mighty workstation , however to understand that you must have an idea what exactly you gonna play with each program/combi .
_________________
KronosX 88, RME HDSP 9652, Sennheiser HD600, Cubase AI6 |
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Vlad_77
Senior Member
Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 380
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| genehart wrote: | to my opinion, Kronos is first of all for guys who are serious about playing keyboards . It has a complete soundset for urban music production , it has the right sound for orchestral instruments .
You can easily reproduce many of modern urban songs with the sounds of Kronos , however you might need to program your own presets
especially for drums . If you want "that modern hip-hop sound" you'll need to make your own drum kits with layering drums etc , also you'll need to learn how to modify sounds and fx as if you're a professional sound engineer ,
because some of the presets are not "production ready"
with vsti's it's pretty hard to find the exact sounds of Korg , Motifs and others that are used in the most of modern hip-hop, rnb and related production .
the Kronos is truly a powerful music workstation, however to understand that you must have an idea what you gonna play with each program/combi . |
Echoing genehart here but from a rock/hard rock perspective. If money is no object, certainly go for the best softsynths and others have named some. I can't because I am strictly a hardware guy. I gig and simply do not trust softsynths. Now to Kronos:
I am gigging in three projects - and starving at all three!  - and two of them are focused on originals with a Beatles 66-68 feel for soundscapes as well as heavy influence from Pink Floyd and Deep Purple. I have a decent rig but Kronos has become my goto keyboard with Kurzweil a close second, and Jupiter 80 for massive pads). You say you are into geeking out on one sound and layering effects. Well man, Kronos is the beast to do it. And unlike any other workstation, you have many synth engines to play around with and tons of effects are calling your name; the layering is insane. Since Kronos is dual-core processor based, the effects don't eat into polyphony either.
Imagine this: on MOD-7 - one of the nine synths on Kronos - you can use your own samples as carriers - FM that is so insane and that is just the start.
This workstation has three discreet VAs: PolySix, MS-20, and AL-1. Each has a distinct character and if you like experimentation, AL-1 will give you plenty to geek out on. Look elsewhere in the Kronos section for a great AL-1 tutorial by Korg's own Dan Phillips to get you started.
STR-1 is a modeller. Now, it is marketed as being able to reproduce sounds that are plucked, scraped, and struck like guitars, basses, violins, etc. BUT, STR-1 can create sounds that would literally be impossible on a real string. Why? Because you can "design" the string, its excitation, dispersion, etc. The possibilities are sick.
Genehart is spot on: the Kronos has the right sounds, and I would add it has the right sounds waiting for you to create them.
So if money is no object, get a fully maxed Kronos X 88 and one of the softsynths the wizards here have mentioned. If you don't want piano action, then get a Kronos X 61. At this point in the industry, IMHO, there is simply no workstation that can approximate what Kronos can do. Actually, if money is no object, get four Kronoses, keep two for you and send one each to Genehart and me.
Best,
Vlad
PS: There are non-workstation alternatives but it seems that you need the power of a hardware workstation and frankly, only Kronos can give you what you crave.
PPS: I think many will echo what I am going to say here: I have owned Kronos since May of 2011. I play it everyday, write songs, and gig with it. And every single day, this instrument just amazes me again and again. I don't care if I sound like a fanboi. I prefer to be a fan of the best.
_________________
Current gear: Kronos, Jupiter 80, Kurzweil PC3,Roland Fantom X8, Roland XV-88 (yep, its old, but the ACTION is heaven and those XV-3080 sounds are still wonderful for me), Radias-R, Motif ES (yeah it's older but I love the guitars ) |
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Shakil
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
Posts: 1169
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| genehart wrote: | to my opinion, Kronos is first of all for guys who are serious about playing keyboards . It has a complete soundset for urban music production , it has the right sound for orchestral instruments .
You can easily reproduce many of modern urban songs with the sounds of Kronos , however you might need to program your own presets
especially for drums . If you want "that modern hip-hop sound" you'll need to make your own drum kits with layering drums etc , also you'll need to learn how to modify sounds and fx as if you're a professional sound engineer ,
because some of the presets are not "production ready"
with vsti's it's pretty hard to find the exact sounds of Korg , Motifs and others that are used in the most of modern hip-hop, rnb and related production .
the Kronos is truly mighty workstation , however to understand that you must have an idea what exactly you gonna play with each program/combi . |
Sounds are very important, but that is not all when you look in a workstation.... Workflow is very important to keep it interesting.... For hip hop production, the workflow isn't much improved since Triton.... try layering drums samples on KRONOS.... and then compare the workflow to that on an MPC or Maschine gives you.... the closest keyboard workstation that comes to MPC is Roland Fantom......
With KRONOS, the OP will have to be as patient as with TRITON, but the sounds will be 100 times better.
_________________
Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol. |
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BasariStudios
Approved Merchant
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:46 am Post subject: |
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Money no issue?: Expensive MIDI Controller, Expensive PC (full with *STUFF*),
Expensive SoundCard and 2 Expensive Speakers...i Guarantee you that you will
be laughing at Kronos or ANY synth in that matter.
_________________
http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
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MoonMusic
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 283
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:24 am Post subject: Re: Workstation vs VST if money no object |
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| jacupmakeup wrote: | I tried the switch to software using reason and logic and never got the hang of it and ended up giving up music altogether.
Thanks! |
I'm curious why you would lean towards Logic when you "never got the hang of it and ended up giving up music altogether"?.....What did you use for sequencing with the Triton when you DID do music?.....If you used the Triton's internal sequencer, then Kronos is similar so you'd get the hang of it much faster than Logic.....HOWEVER...I understand learning DAW software can be frustrating when your trying to be creative but it really is worth the time to learn....When I'm putting a DAW I'm not familiar with through it's paces, I don't try to write a song....I try to bring up an instrument track, Got it working when I press keys...OK great.... Now try to figure out how to add some effects to that sound....Where's the EQ located?....Once you figure out all all the parameters YOU want to know, add another track and do it again....Figure out how to get audio into it, etc....Go through this exercise until you become efficient at it....This will save a lot of frustration when your trying to write something for real....I came from old school MPC pattern sequencing and adding those together to make a song that you recorded to tape so I suffered majorly when I made the step up to Protools and recording linear....I stopped writing for quite awhile too but I'm really happy I made that hurdle now....It's worth it in the end....In a nutshell though use what will give you music....A Kronos w/ MPC or a Roland Fantom G is better than a Mac w/Logic if that's what it takes for you to write music....moon
_________________
Keyboards - Korg Kronos X, Kawai K5000W,M-Audio Venom, Ensoniq TS-12,Kawai K4
Computers - Macbook Pro, Mac Pro "Nehalem"
Interfaces - M-Box Pro, Digidesign 96i,192, Midi IO, Digidesign PRE
DAW - Protools 9 - HD3 Accel
Plugs - All Spectrasonics,Steve Slate Drums 4.0,Slate Trigger,NI Komplete 9 Ultimate,Korg Legacy,Melodyne 3,Evo Autotune,HD3 Pack,Liquid Mix, Eleven, Ample Sound Guitars
Mics - Audio Technica 4033sm, Apogee mic, several Shure SM-57s, 2- Beta 52, 2- AT 3031, 2- Samson CO2
Other - V-Drums, DW Drums, Zildjian A Customs, Muse Research Qu4ttro, Open Labs Miko Timbaland Edition |
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Vlad_77
Senior Member
Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 380
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Shakil wrote: | | genehart wrote: | to my opinion, Kronos is first of all for guys who are serious about playing keyboards . It has a complete soundset for urban music production , it has the right sound for orchestral instruments .
You can easily reproduce many of modern urban songs with the sounds of Kronos , however you might need to program your own presets
especially for drums . If you want "that modern hip-hop sound" you'll need to make your own drum kits with layering drums etc , also you'll need to learn how to modify sounds and fx as if you're a professional sound engineer ,
because some of the presets are not "production ready"
with vsti's it's pretty hard to find the exact sounds of Korg , Motifs and others that are used in the most of modern hip-hop, rnb and related production .
the Kronos is truly mighty workstation , however to understand that you must have an idea what exactly you gonna play with each program/combi . |
Sounds are very important, but that is not all when you look in a workstation.... Workflow is very important to keep it interesting.... For hip hop production, the workflow isn't much improved since Triton.... try layering drums samples on KRONOS.... and then compare the workflow to that on an MPC or Maschine gives you.... the closest keyboard workstation that comes to MPC is Roland Fantom......
With KRONOS, the OP will have to be as patient as with TRITON, but the sounds will be 100 times better. |
I guess that was what I was focusing on Shakil since the OP felt that softsynths have a sort of hollow sound. Kronos does not have that to my ears. That said, I can't really speak to the needs of a hip hop producer since my "areas" are rock and Celtic. It seems though that if Kronos does well with rock, Celtic, new age, ambient, classical and neo-classical, techno, house, trance, jazz, etc., it should also be able to do hip-hop, but again, not being a hip-hop musician I could be very mistaken.
_________________
Current gear: Kronos, Jupiter 80, Kurzweil PC3,Roland Fantom X8, Roland XV-88 (yep, its old, but the ACTION is heaven and those XV-3080 sounds are still wonderful for me), Radias-R, Motif ES (yeah it's older but I love the guitars ) |
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QuiRobinez
Approved Merchant
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 2547
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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why not making it yourself easy and buy Native Instruments Machine, then you have averything you need like loops, the correct kits, the MPC way of making beats and samples like most hip hop producers use and a fantastic bass synth like Massive.
Sure it's all VST / AU and computer based, but i simply don't believe that that sounds less then hardware synth. You just have to learn how to do the mixing for hip hop productions.
My opinion is that the kronos (or any other workstation) isn't the most obvious choice for hip hop productions. Sure it can do it eventually but to get the signature sounds you need to add a lot of samples to it and you have to create some sounds of your own. |
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