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Chriskk
Senior Member
Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 349
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 Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The guitar sounds very digital and robotic. It's not the fault of the player or the Kronos, though. It's futile to try to mimic electric guitar on a synth. |
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SanderXpander
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought the guitar was awful too. But other than that I'm completely with JWPC. The sounds are great. Just means nothing to me musically. |
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iluvchiclets
Full Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 187
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:07 am Post subject: |
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I don't think that is a Kronos guitar. It almost certainly is a real guitar. There is an additional string or pad sound that is accompanying the guitar sound, but the distorted basic sound is played on a fretted instrument.
There are certain passages you can hear the guitarist slide up the fretboard to a note. (as in fretting a D note and sliding up to an E, all within milliseconds)
Also, all the variety in the attack of the guitar strings are too natural. Just in the first thirty seconds of the guitar solo I heard likely 100 variations of string attack sounds. It would be impossible to have that much variety.
It is those subtle details that give it away. Also, the vibrato is not mechanical at all, it has the true sound and variation of a finger on a fretboard.
Perhaps he is triggering the Kronos via midi guitar controller or something like that?
Now, saying all that, if it is actually the Kronos, I am beyond impressed! That would make it a stunning guitar-sounding synth. But all the triggers and mechanics involved to make such a human sounding performance from a keyboard would require 8 hands or more.
I think other guitar players out there might understand what I am saying?
...would be happy to be proven wrong though! |
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1jordyzzz
Platinum Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 688
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:32 am Post subject: |
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wow very cool!
i bet that the acoustic bass is the STR-1 patch..
and i think that the guitar is the kronos patch..
actually i've never had a problem with kronos electric guitar patch... they sound great.. i only had problem with kronos acoustic guitar
_________________
Love my kronos 88 
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well
Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room.. |
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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Jan1 wrote: | | I enjoyed the music, but I find it hard to believe that the guitar is a KRONOS patch. |
I don't find it hard to believe at all. The key to "improving" the realism of Kronos (or any keyboard for that matter) guitars is in the EQ and compression settings. All of the factory patches on Kronos are too "full" to be confused with the real thing. Perhaps the programmers were going for a big solo sound.....but side by side with the real thing....Kronos guitars are WAY too thick. They need to be heavily EQ'd to isolate the frequencies of the real thing. Once you do...they can sound great in a mix.
Then there is the phrasing/articulations. Its quite possible that in this recording, the composer used a midi-guitar controller to input the guitar phrase. I hear slide in's, in particular, that are a classic give-away for real guitar playing vs. a keyboard player simulating with a pitch bender.
Put the right EQ settings with the right articulations and phrasing, and Kronos can generate very realistic acoustic and electric guitars, both rhythm and lead.
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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NuSkoolTone
Approved Merchant
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 1069
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| iluvchiclets wrote: | I don't think that is a Kronos guitar. It almost certainly is a real guitar. There is an additional string or pad sound that is accompanying the guitar sound, but the distorted basic sound is played on a fretted instrument.
There are certain passages you can hear the guitarist slide up the fretboard to a note. (as in fretting a D note and sliding up to an E, all within milliseconds)
Also, all the variety in the attack of the guitar strings are too natural. Just in the first thirty seconds of the guitar solo I heard likely 100 variations of string attack sounds. It would be impossible to have that much variety.
It is those subtle details that give it away. Also, the vibrato is not mechanical at all, it has the true sound and variation of a finger on a fretboard.
Perhaps he is triggering the Kronos via midi guitar controller or something like that?
Now, saying all that, if it is actually the Kronos, I am beyond impressed! That would make it a stunning guitar-sounding synth. But all the triggers and mechanics involved to make such a human sounding performance from a keyboard would require 8 hands or more.
I think other guitar players out there might understand what I am saying?
...would be happy to be proven wrong though! |
+1.
No way that guitar is from the Kronos (at least not stock). I'd have to see a video demonstration of it played on the Kronos to believe it. As a guitar player as well, I hear things...subtle things that are rarely ever on a guitar sound from a workstation. I mean there's fret noises between the phrasings! If that guitar were available, Korg would have showcased it no question for the realism. Though I will say as a guitar player, the "tone" left much to be desired even for that genre. At least for MY taste (YMMV). No cut on the playing, and the tone is acceptable, but not what I'd put out as a sample library if I were to put in that effort. My apologies for the negativity, but that's my honest opinion.
_________________
Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth |
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Jan1
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 765
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| RonF wrote: | | Jan1 wrote: | | I enjoyed the music, but I find it hard to believe that the guitar is a KRONOS patch. |
I don't find it hard to believe at all. The key to "improving" the realism of Kronos (or any keyboard for that matter) guitars is in the EQ and compression settings. All of the factory patches on Kronos are too "full" to be confused with the real thing. Perhaps the programmers were going for a big solo sound.....but side by side with the real thing....Kronos guitars are WAY too thick. They need to be heavily EQ'd to isolate the frequencies of the real thing. Once you do...they can sound great in a mix.
Then there is the phrasing/articulations. Its quite possible that in this recording, the composer used a midi-guitar controller to input the guitar phrase. I hear slide in's, in particular, that are a classic give-away for real guitar playing vs. a keyboard player simulating with a pitch bender.
Put the right EQ settings with the right articulations and phrasing, and Kronos can generate very realistic acoustic and electric guitars, both rhythm and lead. |
I'm aware of how to get realistic sounding guitar out of a sample library (and how much work this can be if you use for example a Prominy guitar), but listen to the melody fragments in the clip, the slur over a fret, I bet that this is a real guitar playing, not a KRONOS patch.  |
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Vim
Senior Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 299
Location: Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Realistic gtr tracks are possible ... a person can actually do some amazing midi programming over 3 -4 tracks using things like fret noises and pitch and mod programming that can come close to approximating the real thing. Using a sequencer like Logic and its strong midi programming ability can yield some surprisingly good results especially if the samples are good approximations / starting points. The Kronos has some good samples and the STR-1 modelling can be used with HD1 in a program / combi. I still use a Triton with the MOSS expansion and some peeps have commented on the quality of the gtr sounds ... all depends on how the sound is programmed and the controls assigned to various parameters.
BUT it takes a lot of time to set up and do right.
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V Narayan
Australia
ex Fiji
ex Marshall Islands |
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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Jan1 wrote: | | RonF wrote: |
I don't find it hard to believe at all. |
I'm aware of how to get realistic sounding guitar out of a sample library (and how much work this can be if you use for example a Prominy guitar), but listen to the melody fragments in the clip, the slur over a fret, I bet that this is a real guitar playing, not a KRONOS patch. |
I have found that its quite amazing what you can achieve with a midi-guitar controller, and some simple tricks like fret noise. The "patch" in question is a *distorted* guitar, making it significantly easier to emulate. The distortion itself masks and blends many nuances. Its got a LOT more to do with the articulations and phrasing, which when played with a decent midi-guitar convertor....actually IS real guitar playing. Its just triggering a tone different than distortion resonance from the actual strings. Its also quite possible the composer blended some real guitar along with the synthesized/sampled guitar to balance it out. Check out some Al Dimeola music for some great examples of this technique. For that matter, click the SoundCloud link in my signature and listen to the first song, which was recorded using only the Kronos (triggered by a Roland GR30 and Gk2a on a nylon acoustic guitar), with both sampled patches and real guitar side by side. Bet you can't tell exactly what's real and what's Memorex, without some explanation.
At the end of the day there is no way to tell for sure, without hearing from the composer. You could very well be right! I'm just saying....its quite possible to compose/program a very realistic guitar track using Kronos patches....with some work.
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8. |
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