Korg Forums

[Mahalo]

This replaces a post that I felt was not well expressed.

I am experiencing a lot of frustrations with the editor for the microSTATION.

Nevertheless the results are superb. I have never before experienced moving a cold audience to cheering and applause and enthusiasm within a couple of minutes. The microSTATION transforms what i believe a musician is capable of achieving in live performance, especially the power to move people emotionally with music. But the editor seems intent to sabotage rather than support.

This is a massively complex machine, and Korg have put so much into this, at a really bargain price.

I hope the specific faults bugs and errors that I have found can be fixed and I would really welcome an opportunity to discuss these directly with korg, with the people who might want feedback on editing from a user perspective.

Currently I am thinking that I can forget all other keyboards and use only the microKORG series for a new style of musical performance - in particular you appear closer to the audience without big boxes and stands, so I am making a new stylish custom stand. However the editor is the biggest setback to such a project.

As it stands you can either use the factore presets, which are superb, if that is your musical style. Or you need not only to know musicality, how you play the keyboard and how to explore the possibilities of this amazing encyclopedia of opportunity, but also how to program computers.

The interface to the user is not optimised yet. Certain data has been lost and there are many inconsistencies between the ARP editor, the Combi editor, and the other areas.

Typically these are separate specialists in the world, audio engineering for example is done by specialists, performance by specialists, computer programming... It is very unlikely that customers have all these skills, and so we must hope that presets and options guide us.

this is where I have so many challenges, because conceptually this is divided into programs, combis, ARP, fx, and so on. as a stage performer, I want the thing to work. I worked professionally as a computer programmer, I studied audio engineering, so i do grasp the essentials, but the practice in each area is for specialists and changing any setting can cause problems in another specialisation.

For performance, with sax or guitar etc., I have to use the "combis", not the "programs". I cannot time my ARP to a drummer, percussion has to time to my ARP, so I need a complete sound including rhythm, = combis. But the real time controls are not linked easily to the combi as I would like. They seem connected basically to the Program level, where any adjustment will risk ruining other Combis that also use that same program. The ideas I want are simple - volume control of tracks 5678 for example- so why can I not have that on Knob 1, 2, 3 4 or any damn knob? What exactly are User knobs for if they are mostly useless?

I appeal to Korg, please listen. The microSTATION can REVOLUTIONISE live performance, but it has faults. I need to disable TEMPO and it is the one knob sitting there that will destroy everything and it is live ALL THE TIME. Must I superglue the damn knob???!!!

korg, please hear some user contributions on how to make amazing workstation do what it is supposed to do, what the designers intended, and the editor software prevents it from doing.

I do not feel that posting on this forum about such details is helpful to anyone. Very few users read the forum. many posts are of different qualities. I want to contact Korg, and there is no contact on any korg website, just the promise that possibly some Korg staff may read this forum some time. or not.

basically the conceptual basis of the editing is so deeply warped away from the end users, I appeal to Korg to rethink what can and cannot be edited and how it may be done. so many normal features are missing, features of normal editing software for decades - undo, autosave of current work, simply not included for example, and the structure is often a hindrance to getting results.

cameras have an easy mode for example. Apps on the iPad are excellent because my 5 year old immediately can grasp the interface, push here, and here, and here. We are spoilt with great software in every other area, and in many ways we are spoilt with the factory sounds, but the editor needs to be much much better in my opinion.

[Re-Member]

"As it stands you can either use the factore presets, which are superb, if that is your musical style. Or you need not only to know musicality, how you play the keyboard and how to explore the possibilities of this amazing encyclopedia of opportunity, but also how to program computers."

The thing you need to realize is that workstations are designed to operate like a keyboard with a computer attached. Each have their own specific operating systems and the fact that this one in particular comes with several PDF manuals tells you that the learning curve is going to be rather steep. I've had mine for three months now and I'm still constantly having to dig in the manual, but for the most part, everything I've been trying to get it to do, I've been able to figure out through trial and error.

"I cannot time my ARP to a drummer, percussion has to time to my ARP"

Synthesizers and electronics have perfect tempos, real drummers don't. When trying to mix the two, the best option is setting up a click track device for the drummer so that he has to follow the machines, not vice versa. You mention wanting to "disable" the tempo, but I'm a bit confused about that...

Anyway, my advice is to come here for any issues, but be very specific about what you're aiming to do, one issue at a time. Your post kind of bounces around between various problems, making it hard to give a more focused answer.
_________________
Roland Juno-60, SH-101, TR-606, MC-505, Casio CZ-101, Yamaha DX100, DX11, Kawai R-50e // Korg R3, microSTATION, Monotribe, MS-20 Mini, SQ-1, minilogue, electribe sampler, Volca series: Bass, Keys, Beats, Sample, FM, Kick, Moog Theremin

[Mahalo]

ReMember thank you for your comments, and my apologies if I probably did not express myself clearly.

Firstly about the ARP and timing - other musicians do not have ARP - they want that sound, do not understand it, just want it but timed to their guitar or drum, and ok, a tap tempo would go part way for short bursts, but I gave up trying to explain and instead I have to persuade the drummer to take a break while I choose some drumbeat that the drummer and others would want differently. The old tradition that the drummer sets the beat is overturned and it is a social problem. Click track is a great solution but I travel very light, I join open jam sessions and my instinct is that a formula will evolve - certain ARP patterns are so clear, they can be used instead of a one a two a three four count in. I suppose a count in feature would resolve this on future models. maybe the sequencer has that - a count in for the rest of the band to align to the ARP, I dont use the SEQ yet.

Disable the Tempo - improvising, I want to swoosh the resonance, clip the gate, everyone loves these effects EXCEPT THAT in the heat of the moment, twiddling away, oops! if by mistake I touch the tempo, the groove is KILLED! I am seriously thinking superglue that knob. there is no way to recover because no exact click reset of the tempo at all once lost. Swing is also dangerous, but once or twice I just got lucky with that one.

Concerning the EDITOR, I think all the challenges will be resolved in the future but for that Korg need feedback from what users would like. I bought the microSTATION to play live, and many live functions are missing - tap tempo, fill in, chord recognition - however the results so far are fantastic because other features give me new and original options. Although I presume I am a minority today, this keyboard gets noticed, it may become quite a trend, I imagine.

IMPROVISING LIVE is very different from programming, notably you are on the edge of the moment, second by second, wondering what will widen or narrow the next cycle, verse, chorus, and so on. I reach a spiritual or psychological high that I want to share with others as musical experience, and programming is in now way related to that, programming is a very different psychology.

i worked for many years in computing (USER INTERFACES specifically) and have witnessed the improvements over the years, especially in the iPad apps, which presume only that you can push a thumb sized button. This revolutionised programming and that same revolution will come to the editor some day soon. For now, the editor is not merely complicated, it is inconsistent and dangerously inconsistent leading to data loss. compare ARP edit, and COMBI edit, certain functions are very different but in particular the ARE YOU SURE: Y/N check is made stupidly annoying for the combi and seems to be absent for the ARP editor. Basics are missing - AUTOSAVE of current work, UNDO, sorry if I am repeating myself but clearly it is not just the complexity that could be reviewed regrouped and restructured into more useful thought bites, just do this and do that chunks with added options for advanced users, there is a lack of harmony and consistency between different operations that every advanced user will need, in my opinion that is.

but I have too many words on this already. Back to work, so many gigs coming my way with this new miracle...

[Re-Member]

It kind of sounds like an arranger keyboard might be more up your alley than a workstation. Workstations are typically geared toward studio production and sequencer playback. Not good for playing alongside a band unless you really plan ahead. I know Korg released a few budget arrangement synths, might wanna give them a look.

You can actually record a 4 click count-in using the seqeuncer using something like a cymbol, then record the remaining measures to be blank. Again, just takes a lot of planning and sometimes less than obvious methods. But keeping a synth in sync with a drummer is often tricky even with things like a tap tempo, tempo knobs, etc. Most drummers often can't hold a steady tempo on their own, which is why you always see pro drummers with ear pieces sending them click tracks anytime more complex electronic sounds are involved. It's been this way for 30 years now, not exactly an old tradition being overturned. I've been in several bands where we've booted out the drummer since my drum programming was much easier to work with.
_________________
Roland Juno-60, SH-101, TR-606, MC-505, Casio CZ-101, Yamaha DX100, DX11, Kawai R-50e // Korg R3, microSTATION, Monotribe, MS-20 Mini, SQ-1, minilogue, electribe sampler, Volca series: Bass, Keys, Beats, Sample, FM, Kick, Moog Theremin

[Mahalo]

Thanks for your comments again ReMember - actually I intended to buy either the brand new Roland BK7 arranger module, or the Korg microArranger (dear me what a disappointment!), but they have many problems and are no real improvement on my existing Roland EXR5 arranger, now gathering dust. Arranger keyboards certainly have the interface I need for live performance but they are dull and dead in comparison. In contrast the microSTATION has inspired me to dump all the other keyboards and create a new live experience.

CHILLOUT music is now huge, and the microSTATION has liberated me to improvise live in this new range of styles. Sure I am also trying to include some Arranger type music, but I will not go back to those dead dull endings and intros, yuck! the microSTATION can get even the coldest audience applauding and cheering.

[johnroney]

i certainly hope other people are reading these messages - it seems that there are alot of people looking for a better microstation editor.


i just read another guy's post about transferring part 1 to part 9 on a guitar combi - possible, but it took the guy the whole day - (man, i know your pain! ! !)

so, how possible would it be to get a new editor? anyone technically inclined out there?
- easier librarian (saving, loading, mass moving of patches)
- copy/paste of tracks/programs to other channels/parts.
- drag and drop for virtually all functions
- ASSIGN knobs - have a page dedicated to where this is going, and a reminder of where they are patched.
- SAVE PRESETS for FX plugins and filters/timbre paramaters.
- easy moving of patches between combis - (this one can save HOURS -)
(check it out: you have a lead synth that is a 'combi' - it uses parts 1 and 2 as a blend of two sounds, say, an octave apart, with different FX.... ok. now, you want RHODES in the bottom layer, or on another channel... cool... except that your rhodes sound is a 3 patch blend with its own FX and blah blah blah... now, you want B3 instead of rhodes, but the same lead... this process is literally HOURS of work. write down all your little numbers somewhere, check your patching, load in your sounds, re-create your filters, re-assign your knobs, and hope for the best.)...

seriously.

the information in the editor is basically TEXT FILE information - like a word processor... there is no 'audio' or no 'vst' or proprietary format - the sounds are generated by just a bunch of numerical variables that modify the existing ROM. each '.all' file is about 2megs.

so, .... anyone out there feel up to the task? we all recognize how awesome this keyboard is, but the editor stinks, quite honestly. the editor for the microkorg xl has pretty much all these features... drag/drop, librarian, copy/paste, etc... check it out... it's pretty, pretty good...
maybe a good place to start for any programmers out there.
as a consumer, i would seriously pay EXTRA for a 3rd party editor program...

and, as a follow-up, i would discourage any 'senior members' responses that we use the microstation 'as a workstation' or, 'as it was intended', or suggest some different product. i have had great success in getting the microstation to behave in the way i want, but it's just a constant struggle with the archaic interface of the editor. i would, rather, ENCOURAGE any programmers or other well-minded individuals out there to program a new editor with some desparately needed features... and i would go so far as to say that i'd pay to have one.

let's open the dialogue. hopefully korg will take notice.

[LFCMusic]

Being already familiar with the M3 editor, I thought it be the same but its not.
I wouldn't have bought the Microstation had I known how many problems the editor has. I don't like editing sounds on a small screen.

And the organizing..??? Forget it.

I also thought you'd easily be able to load up specific patches into the user section like using it a Favorites or Song list, but that's almost impossible. Our set list changes every Sunday.
_________________
-Current Gear-
Korg: M3 EXB-256 & MicroSTATION

-Past Gear-
Korg: M50, Trinity, Triton, 01WFD, 05RW, X5D, SP-100 & N364
Yamaha: Motif 8

[johnroney]

yes yes... i'd like to steer this particular post away from the comments about how bad the editor is... (it sucks) !

instead, it would be cool to open the dialogue about how we can improve it, or possibly twist korg's proverbial arm to make a new one ? (ha!)
or, have a 3rd party developper... if there is enough support, and a financial commitment, i think that this would be an easy task for a developer...
how about an iphone app!

[Re-Member]

[johnroney]

i had originally posted my long letter outlining all of the faults and inadequacies of the software editor. i stand by my bold statement - THIS EDITOR NEEDS AN UPGRADE. other people have since echoed my complaints...and, i have tried to convert those complaints into positivity to look for a NEW EDITOR... but i find it sad that 'senior members' chime in and say things like "oh yeah, well, you just simply have to save it to the user bank, read the manual, do it this way..."
... granted, it's good advice, and it's all in the manual as well...

BUT the problem is not knowing how to do it, it's that it is FAR too complicated...
if you only make one combi in your life, then clicking your mouse about 7 times won't bother you... selecting the location, naming the preset, hitting RETURN! (haha... gets me everytime!), selecting the category, only to find that if you choose the wrong category, your library on the keyboard itself is mis-ordered.
multiply all that by about 75 combis, and then try to organize them in an intelligent fashion... after they're done.

anyone with more than an hour's experience with the editor (manual, or no manual!) can easily tell that it is cumbersome, and archaic, and in no way makes programming the microstation a pleasurable experience.

so, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE - make a new post for your complaints - they are all VALID, but let's keep a good track of what people want, and then HOPEFULLY someone will read this and MAKE A NEW EDITOR.

if there is a senior member that feels that they need to respond to me for my criticisms, i would gladly participate in an open dialogue. i just want some new software... and, as i have mentioned.. i am willing to pay $...

[LFCMusic]

I'd pay $20-30 for a better editor.
_________________
-Current Gear-
Korg: M3 EXB-256 & MicroSTATION

-Past Gear-
Korg: M50, Trinity, Triton, 01WFD, 05RW, X5D, SP-100 & N364
Yamaha: Motif 8

[johnroney]

i'm going to post all this to a new topic, to avoid some of the other comments that were posted. please join the campaign.
it's called:

NEW M.S. SOFTWARE EDITOR CAMPAIGN

thanks...